Can an atheist say? : "God doesn't exists".
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18-09-2014, 08:32 PM
RE: Can an atheist say? : "God doesn't exists".
It does not actually fall under that fallacy. To say something does not exist, because of a lack of evidence, is the neutral position of belief.

Dark matter does not exist.

We have 0 evidence of its actual physical position in the universe. However, some people do think it "could" exist based on some evidence that suggests it might.

This is a poor comparison but lets roll with it. I guess I could use the string theory though, that might be a much better place to start. However, since there is not any real evidence of it actually existing. It does not until those who do believe it is real prove that it does.


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18-09-2014, 08:49 PM
RE: Can an atheist say? : "God doesn't exists".
(18-09-2014 08:32 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  It does not actually fall under that fallacy. To say something does not exist, because of a lack of evidence, is the neutral position of belief.

Dark matter does not exist.

We have 0 evidence of its actual physical position in the universe. However, some people do think it "could" exist based on some evidence that suggests it might.

This is a poor comparison but lets roll with it. I guess I could use the string theory though, that might be a much better place to start. However, since there is not any real evidence of it actually existing. It does not until those who do believe it is real prove that it does.

"Dark matter" is a place-holder explanation of whatever it is that allows galaxies and galaxy clusters to rotate faster than baryonic gravity alone can explain.

So, yes, "dark matter" exists; we just don't know what it is. It's 'dark' in that we can't observe it directly, and it acts gravitationally like some kind of matter.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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18-09-2014, 08:57 PM (This post was last modified: 18-09-2014 09:10 PM by TheBear.)
RE: Can an atheist say? : "God doesn't exists".
(18-09-2014 05:19 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  BTW, there is no evidence that any of the gods invented by the fertile imagination of humans exist.

It's all bullshit.

Now look what you did! You made baby Jesus cry, ya damned heathen!

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On a side note - Holy shit! Atlanta 56 - 0 over Tampa Bay.
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18-09-2014, 09:08 PM
RE: Can an atheist say? : "God doesn't exists".
The god of Jehovah has a pretty clear definition, and I think it is possible to prove, as much as anything can be proven, that he doesn't exist.

"God" as an otherworldly force with no clear definition cannot be disproven, but that falls out of the definition of the abstract "god". What happens when an unstoppable force meets and immovable object? By definition they pass right through each other. By definition god is not of the material universe and doesn't interact with it in measurable ways. Hence the "perfect island" arguments, ect.
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18-09-2014, 09:09 PM (This post was last modified: 18-09-2014 09:54 PM by Thinkerbelle.)
RE: Can an atheist say? : "God doesn't exists".
Atlanta (which does exist) 56, Tampa Bay (which does exist) 0.

Update: Atlanta 56 Tampa Bay 14

Although there was no evidence that the Tampa offence existed, we are now getting reports that it has been seen in Georgia. Checking for documentation.......

Aaaaaaaaand Devin Hester gives credit to gawd for breaking the record for scoring returns. Facepalm

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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18-09-2014, 09:28 PM
RE: Can an atheist say? : "God doesn't exists".
It's really just a false sense of knowing. Since there is no evidence for God, then a God does not exist for sure?

I am an Atheist, I don't think a God exists, but I have no evidence to prove he doesn't. If we had evidence for it, religion would be declining much quicker than it is now. It's just near impossible to prove a negative true or false.

If I insist that there is an omnipotent green left boot that created the Big Bang, and write a long book about it, no one could prove me wrong OR right. At least not with our current scientific abilities.
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18-09-2014, 09:39 PM
RE: Can an atheist say? : "God doesn't exists".
(18-09-2014 09:28 PM)ExtricatedBeyondBelief Wrote:  It's really just a false sense of knowing. Since there is no evidence for God, then a God does not exist for sure?

I am an Atheist, I don't think a God exists, but I have no evidence to prove he doesn't. If we had evidence for it, religion would be declining much quicker than it is now. It's just near impossible to prove a negative true or false.

If I insist that there is an omnipotent green left boot that created the Big Bang, and write a long book about it, no one could prove me wrong OR right. At least not with our current scientific abilities.

There is plenty of evidence that the god they claim exists doesn't.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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18-09-2014, 10:54 PM
RE: Can an atheist say? : "God doesn't exists".
(18-09-2014 05:11 PM)Emanuel Vasconcelos Wrote:  I've been talking to an atheist who said: "There's no evidence for the existence of God, therefore God doesn't exists." I know that this is actually a logical fallacy called argumentum ad ignorantiam. And as far as I know, an atheist can't say "God doesn't exists" instead they say "There's no evidence for the existence of God, therefore it is rational to believe that God doesn't exists." "Or it is rational to deny the belief of its existence"

However, I don't think it is possible or logically valid for an atheist to deny the existance of God, he can deny the arguments that try to prove that God exists but it is not possible to deny the existence itself.

What do you guys think about this? Is it logically correct for an atheist to say: God doesn't exists.

I think that if there is no evidence for an idea or concept, but it does not contradict any facts of reality then it is still possible that evidence could turn up for that thing and it is proper to say "I don't know". However if there is no evidence and it does contradict known facts, then it is proper to say that thing doesn't exist. The God concept meets the latter criteria.

I recognize that I am in a small minority but I have recently become a strong atheist. The God concept contradicts every fundamental principle of metaphysics that is self evident and observable and for that reason I think it is logically sound to say that God doesn't exist. If God does exist, then everything I know to be true would be false and I would no longer be able to trust my own mind.

I've been using the argument from primacy lately with theists and not one of them has tried to refute it. When I bring it up, they clam right up and refuse to interact with it. A few have denied that it is sound but give no reasons why. They do get very angry which I take as a sign that the argument has hit home. I don't think it can be refuted because they have to accept and use the main premise even to attempt to refute it.

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18-09-2014, 11:13 PM
RE: Can an atheist say? : "God doesn't exists".
I don't think it's necessary to say "God doesn't exist." Rather, I say something along the lines of "The evidence for your alleged god is not up to My standards; therefore, I'm proceeding as if it doesn't exist. If it wants to correct that assumption, it's free to drop in to visit Me any time."
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19-09-2014, 07:11 AM
RE: Can an atheist say? : "God doesn't exists".
(18-09-2014 10:54 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  
(18-09-2014 05:11 PM)Emanuel Vasconcelos Wrote:  I've been talking to an atheist who said: "There's no evidence for the existence of God, therefore God doesn't exists." I know that this is actually a logical fallacy called argumentum ad ignorantiam. And as far as I know, an atheist can't say "God doesn't exists" instead they say "There's no evidence for the existence of God, therefore it is rational to believe that God doesn't exists." "Or it is rational to deny the belief of its existence"

However, I don't think it is possible or logically valid for an atheist to deny the existance of God, he can deny the arguments that try to prove that God exists but it is not possible to deny the existence itself.

What do you guys think about this? Is it logically correct for an atheist to say: God doesn't exists.

I think that if there is no evidence for an idea or concept, but it does not contradict any facts of reality then it is still possible that evidence could turn up for that thing and it is proper to say "I don't know". However if there is no evidence and it does contradict known facts, then it is proper to say that thing doesn't exist. The God concept meets the latter criteria.

I recognize that I am in a small minority but I have recently become a strong atheist. The God concept contradicts every fundamental principle of metaphysics that is self evident and observable and for that reason I think it is logically sound to say that God doesn't exist. If God does exist, then everything I know to be true would be false and I would no longer be able to trust my own mind.

I've been using the argument from primacy lately with theists and not one of them has tried to refute it. When I bring it up, they clam right up and refuse to interact with it. A few have denied that it is sound but give no reasons why. They do get very angry which I take as a sign that the argument has hit home. I don't think it can be refuted because they have to accept and use the main premise even to attempt to refute it.

I am unfamiliar with the argument from primacy, and Google failed me on it.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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