Can anyone explain how this wasn't God?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
03-05-2015, 12:16 PM
RE: Can anyone explain how this wasn't God?
(02-05-2015 09:02 PM)Shinosky Wrote:  I don't expect you to have any consideration for anything I say. That's your choice. I don't control you. You have free will. And with my free will I choose to not take into consideration anyone had, has, or has to say that goes against the creator. God wins. He remains undefeated. Always and forever.

Then congratulations: you have just said the one thing that ensures that absolutely no atheist here will even entertain what you're saying, as you've refused to give us even the basic courtesy of thinking about what we say at all.

You now have no reason to be here, and can safely buzz off. It'll be better for us all.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Esquilax's post
03-05-2015, 12:52 PM
RE: Can anyone explain how this wasn't God?
Well, I want to make a few observations.

To me, the argument between kingschosen and 'other' is analogous to people arguing the difference between super speed and super strength. Both superhero abilities imply some muscular mutation at some part of the body, so why can't super strength achieve super speed? Because they are both made up and fucking intangible, so arguing about it is based off of pure speculation and non-factual dribble.

Second of all, it is not the place of the skeptic in this debate to provide evidence of absence. It is the believers' job to provide evidence of presence, and since believers plainly state that one cannot "test" their magical sky daddy, I'll take that as an admission that they can't even cup their chosen pixie's fart, let alone demonstrate anything irrefutably tangible and indicative.

[Image: Untitled-2.png?_subject_uid=322943157&am...Y7Dzq4lJog]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Logica Humano's post
03-05-2015, 04:28 PM
RE: Can anyone explain how this wasn't God?
(30-04-2015 02:01 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  There's also OVER 2000 years of Buddhist writings and still countless added each year in this era. Are you too small, insignificant, and with ODD objections to grasp their profound ideas of what they have to say?

Which buddhist teachings, like the views of the buddhist scholar, Bhikkhu Bodhi, that "morality and ethical values are intrinsic laws of the cosmos built into the heart of reality"? In the sublime state of Nirvana, and path to obtain it, on Karma and shit?

Buddha's peddles a view of reality as story book, similar to theism in this regard, only difference is that it doesn't bring into question who or what authored it. If you're an atheists selling the same shit as traditional buddhism, you're just a closeted theist. Is Nirvana a product of countless years of natural selection?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-05-2015, 04:48 PM
RE: Can anyone explain how this wasn't God?
(30-04-2015 03:22 PM)Chas Wrote:  Seriously? You don't think their education and intelligence give them an edge?
And your comparison sucks. How is your actor or mechanic going to fare on subjects outside of their professions?

No, their particular education doesn't at all, in fact in might even be problematic in making observations in the human sphere, because their professional carriers tend to inoculate them from the everyday problems of human life.

Why would Neil Tyson know anything more about the conditions and problems in Sudan, by knowing all about astrophysics, than George Clooney, who at least spent some time there and made a documentary about it? How would his area of expertise give him an edge over your typical college graduate, regarding geopolitics, or ISIS?

Quote:Nice try, but you led off with the claims, so you get to support your assertion first.

Well, since I recently read this interesting exchange between Harris vs. Chomsky, I'll share it, which just reveals how out of depth Harris is:

http://www.alternet.org/belief/sam-harri...d-it-world

Or consider Dawkins long series of gaffs, like Dear Muslima. He didn't sound particularly bright or insightful there, just painfully ignorant.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-05-2015, 05:21 PM
RE: Can anyone explain how this wasn't God?
(03-05-2015 04:28 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(30-04-2015 02:01 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  There's also OVER 2000 years of Buddhist writings and still countless added each year in this era. Are you too small, insignificant, and with ODD objections to grasp their profound ideas of what they have to say?

Which buddhist teachings, like the views of the buddhist scholar, Bhikkhu Bodhi, that "morality and ethical values are intrinsic laws of the cosmos built into the heart of reality"? In the sublime state of Nirvana, and path to obtain it, on Karma and shit?

Buddha's peddles a view of reality as story book, similar to theism in this regard, only difference is that it doesn't bring into question who or what authored it. If you're an atheists selling the same shit as traditional buddhism, you're just a closeted theist. Is Nirvana a product of countless years of natural selection?

You know there isn't 1 traditional Buddhism right? That would be like saying "traditional Christianity" and what on earth is that?

No, even within the main branch of Buddhist writings detailing the world, there is more text than what makes up the Bible. Plus there is countless extra writings of monks and scholars in commentary added to that for ages which profoundly alters various forms of buddhist thought.

From all ranges of accepting only some teachings or branching out the core ideas over the years in different ways like the Theravada, Mahayna Buddhism, Zen, Naturalistic Buddhism, etc.

And there's many ways you can take Nirvana or people in Satori, to some it can be just being in a peaceful almost at ease state with consciousness. You don't have to be judgmental with things you don't agree with.

I guess the problem is not THEM, it's YOU... hmm Consider Can you not see your SO CLEAR bias? That you rip people for doing something then immediately do it when the situation is altered to a different school of thought?

You're Buddha peddles a reality like a story book IS identical to saying the same shit about Christianity.

You think Christianity is different because it's your experience you've been familiar with.. for a guy constantly peddling on about relativism in morality in atheist, you'd think you would understand how it applies to yourself so clearly. But I'm baffled you don't put yourself in that box to understand your social situation upbringing impacting you.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-05-2015, 05:36 PM
RE: Can anyone explain how this wasn't God?
(02-05-2015 09:02 PM)Shinosky Wrote:  
(02-05-2015 11:56 AM)Esquilax Wrote:  If you aren't amenable to having your mind changed, or seriously considering the points we make, then the question isn't why you bother coming here, it's why we should bother engaging with you on these topics.

It's one thing to engage in theological discussion, it's quite another to begin that discussion by making it clear that you have no consideration at all for the points that the other side is making, yet you still expect that we should have any for yours.

I don't expect you to have any consideration for anything I say. That's your choice. I don't control you. You have free will. And with my free will I choose to not take into consideration anyone had, has, or has to say that goes against the creator. God wins. He remains undefeated. Always and forever.

Truly? Which god?

Let’s take a look at Psalms 82.1:

New International Version
A psalm of Asaph. God presides in the great assembly; he renders judgment among the "gods":

New Living Translation
A psalm of Asaph. God presides over heaven's court; he pronounces judgment on the heavenly beings:

English Standard Version
A Psalm of Asaph. God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:

New American Standard Bible
A Psalm of Asaph. God takes His stand in His own congregation; He judges in the midst of the rulers.

King James Bible
A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
A psalm of Asaph. God has taken His place in the divine assembly; He judges among the gods:"

International Standard Version
God takes his stand in the divine assembly; among the divine beings he renders judgment:

NET Bible
A psalm of Asaph. God stands in the assembly of El; in the midst of the gods he renders judgment.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
God stands in the assembly of the Angels and among the Angels he will judge.

GOD'S WORD Translation
[A psalm by Asaph.] God takes his place in his own assembly. He pronounces judgment among the gods:

Jubilee Bible 2000
God stands in the congregation of the mighty; he judges among the gods.

King James 2000 Bible
God stands in the congregation of the mighty; he judges among the gods.

American King James Version
God stands in the congregation of the mighty; he judges among the gods.

American Standard Version
God standeth in the congregation of God; He judgeth among the gods.

Douay-Rheims Bible
A psalm for Asaph. God hath stood in the congregation of gods: and being in the midst of them he judgeth gods.

Darby Bible Translation
{A Psalm of Asaph.} God standeth in the assembly of God, he judgeth among the gods.

English Revised Version
A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of God; he judgeth among the gods.

Webster's Bible Translation
A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

World English Bible
God presides in the great assembly. He judges among the gods.

Young's Literal Translation
-- A Psalm of Asaph. God hath stood in the company of God, In the midst God doth judge.

Notice the vast majority are in line with the KJV, some others have taken creative license to change the word gods (plural) to "angels", "divine beings" or "rulers" lol......yeah. The oldest version on this list I believe is the Douay-Rheims, which *gasp* says the same thing as the KJV. Now, you can tear down each of these versions one way or another and identify translation errors (speaking of translation errors only, as all bibles can be easily and systematically debunked) , because that is now widely known among biblical scholars. Read your bible, actually read it, think, evolve beyond the myth.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes goodwithoutgod's post
04-05-2015, 12:58 PM
RE: Can anyone explain how this wasn't God?
(03-05-2015 04:48 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(30-04-2015 03:22 PM)Chas Wrote:  Seriously? You don't think their education and intelligence give them an edge?
And your comparison sucks. How is your actor or mechanic going to fare on subjects outside of their professions?

No, their particular education doesn't at all, in fact in might even be problematic in making observations in the human sphere, because their professional carriers tend to inoculate them from the everyday problems of human life.

Why would Neil Tyson know anything more about the conditions and problems in Sudan, by knowing all about astrophysics, than George Clooney, who at least spent some time there and made a documentary about it? How would his area of expertise give him an edge over your typical college graduate, regarding geopolitics, or ISIS?

You have now spun off into complete irrelevance as that has little or nothing to do with your original contention.

Quote:
Quote:Nice try, but you led off with the claims, so you get to support your assertion first.

Well, since I recently read this interesting exchange between Harris vs. Chomsky, I'll share it, which just reveals how out of depth Harris is:

http://www.alternet.org/belief/sam-harri...d-it-world

Or consider Dawkins long series of gaffs, like Dear Muslima. He didn't sound particularly bright or insightful there, just painfully ignorant.

But that does not translate into celebrities being as insightful as was your contention.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-05-2015, 01:28 PM
RE: Can anyone explain how this wasn't God?
(03-05-2015 04:48 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Why would Neil Tyson know anything more about the conditions and problems in Sudan, by knowing all about astrophysics, than George Clooney, who at least spent some time there and made a documentary about it? How would his area of expertise give him an edge over your typical college graduate, regarding geopolitics, or ISIS?

Why are you going on about people making statements outside their area of expertise? My post was about people who were *explaining* themselves as experts on their *own* subject. In Physics NDT reigns supreme along with a few others like Brian May, but there is not a single Christian scholar or indeed any theist scholar that I am aware of who can explain **his own subject** (i.e. Christianity / theism) without resorting to some kind of mystical bullshit handwaving.

My question to you is, why? Why can't your millions of Christians produce a single person of the stature of Neil deGrasse Tyson, Brian May, Bill Nye, Richard Dawkins too - as a biologist (in my experience) his stuff is kinda dry but it's spot on in terms of being well explained and factual - who can explain your religion - their supposed area of expertise - in an accessible way, a way which is certifiably not bullshit?

It's all too easily seen through.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like morondog's post
04-05-2015, 01:54 PM
RE: Can anyone explain how this wasn't God?
(04-05-2015 01:28 PM)morondog Wrote:  My question to you is, why? Why can't your millions of Christians produce a single person of the stature of Neil deGrasse Tyson, Brian May, Bill Nye, Richard Dawkins too - as a biologist (in my experience) his stuff is kinda dry but it's spot on in terms of being well explained and factual - who can explain your religion - their supposed area of expertise - in an accessible way, a way which is certifiably not bullshit?

It's all too easily seen through.

You mean are their particularly good articulators of christianity and christian perspective and beliefs, the way Tyson and Dawkins are regarding their particular sciences?

Sure, there are a variety of theologians and writers who are accessible, are more open to being understand by wider audiences, like G. K. Chesterton, C.S Lewis, Herbert Mccabe, Timothy Keller, etc...

But I think your problem is not this, but that you want someone who has you in mind as their audience, who takes in your various objections and criticism, addressing your particular unique concerns. Who caters to your own quirks and sensibilities. In this regards there's likely to be none.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-05-2015, 02:12 PM
RE: Can anyone explain how this wasn't God?
(04-05-2015 01:54 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(04-05-2015 01:28 PM)morondog Wrote:  My question to you is, why? Why can't your millions of Christians produce a single person of the stature of Neil deGrasse Tyson, Brian May, Bill Nye, Richard Dawkins too - as a biologist (in my experience) his stuff is kinda dry but it's spot on in terms of being well explained and factual - who can explain your religion - their supposed area of expertise - in an accessible way, a way which is certifiably not bullshit?

It's all too easily seen through.

You mean are their particularly good articulators of christianity and christian perspective and beliefs, the way Tyson and Dawkins are regarding their particular sciences?

Sure, there are a variety of theologians and writers who are accessible, are more open to being understand by wider audiences, like G. K. Chesterton, C.S Lewis, Herbert Mccabe, Timothy Keller, etc...

But I think your problem is not this, but that you want someone who has you in mind as their audience, who takes in your various objections and criticism, addressing your particular unique concerns. Who caters to your own quirks and sensibilities. In this regards there's likely to be none.


No, the real problem of why Christianity cannot produce the same caliber of advocates that Science can, is because religion is unable to form a consensus the way science can. Each one of those aforementioned authors are going to have varying opinions on any number of theological topics, and they can all quote scripture to support their often contradictory positions. You don't see that with Tyson or Dawkins because they're advocates for science, the best method we have for determining what is factually accurate. Tyson can get on stage, give an interview, or make an episode of Cosmos and know that he has 95%+ of the scientific community at his back, because he's using facts. No one in Christianity is capable of doing that, because it is a religion.

It's the fundamental difference between knowledge and faith. Religions shard into ever increasing factions, science builds understanding and consensus.

[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes EvolutionKills's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: