Can anyone explain how this wasn't God?
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02-03-2012, 03:18 PM
RE: Can anyone explain how this wasn't God?
(02-03-2012 03:09 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I'll just send it to Lucradis.

Good call, put it on his doorstep in a paper bag! Oh, and light the bag on fire before you ring is doorbell!
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02-03-2012, 10:06 PM (This post was last modified: 02-03-2012 10:16 PM by bjgodsimage.)
RE: Can anyone explain how this wasn't God?
(02-03-2012 02:54 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(02-03-2012 02:33 PM)bjgodsimage Wrote:  your right, but god already drawn us, we are now able to come to the father through jesus, all of us, ever since jesus died on the cross we were compatible with god again, its not like jesus comes and chooses people every now and then and they end up saved, because thats a form of judgement, and love dont judge, and god loves all of us, through the blood of jesus and only the blood of jesus we can go to god, nothing else besides the blood of jesus, because he gave us salvation through that blood, and with salvation we may have a relationship with god again.

You're rambling.

Anyway.

Let's look at what you said:

Quote:your right, but god already drawn us

So, if you agree that only God can draw us, why are you telling atheists to seek God?

Quote:we are now able to come to the father through jesus, all of us, ever since jesus died on the cross we were compatible with god again

So, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Noah, Moses, David, etc. weren't able to come to God? They weren't compatible with God?

Quote:its not like jesus comes and chooses people every now and then and they end up saved,

No one "ends up" saved. Christ chose those whom He was going to save before the foundations of the world.

Eph 1:4-5
4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,

Quote:because thats a form of judgement, and love dont judge

God is not just love. God is sovereign. He is also wrathful, just, and jealous. And, God most certainly judges.

1 Cor 4:3-5
3 But to me it is a very small thing that I may be examined by you, or by any human court; in fact, I do not even examine myself. 4 For I am conscious of nothing against myself, yet I am not by this acquitted; but the one who examines me is the Lord. 5 Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men’s hearts; and then each man’s praise will come to him from God

Quote:and god loves all of us, through the blood of jesus and only the blood of jesus we can go to god, nothing else besides the blood of jesus, because he gave us salvation through that blood, and with salvation we may have a relationship with god again.

Christ's atonement is only meant for some.

2 Cor 2:13
13 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.

i wasnt rambling i was just writing what god put in my spirit, honestly. And i said your right cuz i didnt want to come at you but ill keep it 100 with you this time, Your Wrong.(no offense). You said, ‘You can only become a christian if GOD draws you’, which you might have got from John 6:44, ‘No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.’

To understand this, we need to look at the Biblical background of this passage. In the beginning God created us to be in a loving relationship with him. The picture in the garden of Eden was of God and humanity in a close relationship - God provided everything they needed and gave them the responsibility to look after the world. So from the start we can say that God wanted EVERYONE to be close to him (Gen 2:4-17)

But that’s not the way it is today. What happened? Well it’s not that God changed his mind. On the contrary, Adam and Eve decided that they wanted to rule the world without God. They disobeyed his instructions and were banished from the beautiful garden God had provided and the close relationship with God that He intended. Adam and Eve died spiritually that day. So it’s not that God turned his back on us, but we turned our back on Him. This is what we call sin, and this infected the hearts of everyone who has been born since Adam and Eve. The natural state of the human heart is to reject God’s rule of our lives and a close relationship with him.

So when Jesus says ‘No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him’, it’s not because God doesn’t want us to be close to him. It’s because WE don’t want to be close to GOD. What we need is a radical change of heart. Only God can change our hearts, and that’s why he sent Jesus.

God sent Jesus to show the world that even though we don’t want a relationship with God, he still wants a relationship with us. Even though we deserve God’s punishment, Jesus died to save us and bring us back to God. This is what Jesus says about his death, ‘And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself’. (John 12:32) Jesus was lifted up on the cross so that ALL people would be drawn back to God. Once again we see God’s desire that all people have a relationship with Him.

So to answer your question, God is drawing all people to himself through the cross of Jesus. The verse in John 6:44 is NOT saying that even if you want to be born again you can’t unless God draws you. It’s saying that since everyone is sinful, no one wants to be a Christian without God changing his or her heart.

This is really good news for anyone who wants to be born again. Because you wouldn’t feel that way unless God IS drawing you to himself. It’s natural to want to reject God, but it’s supernatural to want to become a Christian. If you feel like you want to be born again, then you can be sure that GOD IS DRAWING YOU. Without him drawing you, you wouldn’t want to know him. So if you want to be born again, it’s because God has changed your heart. The only thing to do now is pray and thank God for drawing you to him. Accept his wonderful gift of forgiveness and eternal life, and know that you are born again through Jesus!

If you have done this, the angels in heaven are rejoicing over you because you have been born again and you are one of God’s children! Please talk to someone, even myself, so that they can help you to grow in your new life! Praise God!


(02-03-2012 10:06 PM)bjgodsimage Wrote:  
(02-03-2012 02:54 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(02-03-2012 02:33 PM)bjgodsimage Wrote:  your right, but god already drawn us, we are now able to come to the father through jesus, all of us, ever since jesus died on the cross we were compatible with god again, its not like jesus comes and chooses people every now and then and they end up saved, because thats a form of judgement, and love dont judge, and god loves all of us, through the blood of jesus and only the blood of jesus we can go to god, nothing else besides the blood of jesus, because he gave us salvation through that blood, and with salvation we may have a relationship with god again.

You're rambling.

Anyway.

Let's look at what you said:

Quote:your right, but god already drawn us

So, if you agree that only God can draw us, why are you telling atheists to seek God?

Quote:we are now able to come to the father through jesus, all of us, ever since jesus died on the cross we were compatible with god again

So, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Noah, Moses, David, etc. weren't able to come to God? They weren't compatible with God?

Quote:its not like jesus comes and chooses people every now and then and they end up saved,

No one "ends up" saved. Christ chose those whom He was going to save before the foundations of the world.

Eph 1:4-5
4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,

Quote:because thats a form of judgement, and love dont judge

God is not just love. God is sovereign. He is also wrathful, just, and jealous. And, God most certainly judges.

1 Cor 4:3-5
3 But to me it is a very small thing that I may be examined by you, or by any human court; in fact, I do not even examine myself. 4 For I am conscious of nothing against myself, yet I am not by this acquitted; but the one who examines me is the Lord. 5 Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men’s hearts; and then each man’s praise will come to him from God

Quote:and god loves all of us, through the blood of jesus and only the blood of jesus we can go to god, nothing else besides the blood of jesus, because he gave us salvation through that blood, and with salvation we may have a relationship with god again.

Christ's atonement is only meant for some.

2 Cor 2:13
13 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.

i wasnt rambling i was just writing what god put in my spirit, honestly. And i said your right cuz i didnt want to come at you but ill keep it 100 with you this time, Your Wrong.(no offense). You said, ‘You can only become a christian if GOD draws you’, which you might have got from John 6:44, ‘No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.’

To understand this, we need to look at the Biblical background of this passage. In the beginning God created us to be in a loving relationship with him. The picture in the garden of Eden was of God and humanity in a close relationship - God provided everything they needed and gave them the responsibility to look after the world. So from the start we can say that God wanted EVERYONE to be close to him (Gen 2:4-17)

But that’s not the way it is today. What happened? Well it’s not that God changed his mind. On the contrary, Adam and Eve decided that they wanted to rule the world without God. They disobeyed his instructions and were banished from the beautiful garden God had provided and the close relationship with God that He intended. Adam and Eve died spiritually that day. So it’s not that God turned his back on us, but we turned our back on Him. This is what we call sin, and this infected the hearts of everyone who has been born since Adam and Eve. The natural state of the human heart is to reject God’s rule of our lives and a close relationship with him.

So when Jesus says ‘No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him’, it’s not because God doesn’t want us to be close to him. It’s because WE don’t want to be close to GOD. What we need is a radical change of heart. Only God can change our hearts, and that’s why he sent Jesus.

God sent Jesus to show the world that even though we don’t want a relationship with God, he still wants a relationship with us. Even though we deserve God’s punishment, Jesus died to save us and bring us back to God. This is what Jesus says about his death, ‘And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself’. (John 12:32) Jesus was lifted up on the cross so that ALL people would be drawn back to God. Once again we see God’s desire that all people have a relationship with Him.

So to answer your question, God is drawing all people to himself through the cross of Jesus. The verse in John 6:44 is NOT saying that even if you want to be born again you can’t unless God draws you. It’s saying that since everyone is sinful, no one wants to be a Christian without God changing his or her heart.

This is really good news for anyone who wants to be born again. Because you wouldn’t feel that way unless God IS drawing you to himself. It’s natural to want to reject God, but it’s supernatural to want to become a Christian. If you feel like you want to be born again, then you can be sure that GOD IS DRAWING YOU. Without him drawing you, you wouldn’t want to know him. So if you want to be born again, it’s because God has changed your heart. The only thing to do now is pray and thank God for drawing you to him. Accept his wonderful gift of forgiveness and eternal life, and know that you are born again through Jesus!

If you have done this, the angels in heaven are rejoicing over you because you have been born again and you are one of God’s children! Please talk to someone, even myself, so that they can help you to grow in your new life! Praise God!

and the day of judgement is when god will judge, Matthew 12:36
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02-03-2012, 11:06 PM
RE: Can anyone explain how this wasn't God?
(02-03-2012 10:06 PM)bjgodsimage Wrote:  Even though we deserve God’s punishment

For what?

We all get a voice in our heads from time to time, it’s much better, psychology speaking, if it’s your own.
Drugs fuck with your head, that’s why people take them.
What you had was a voice in your head telling you something you wanted to hear after taking something that seeps into your brain and starts flicking switches.

Not a miracle, unless god gets into people to tell them they can fly after taking acid is also a miracle?
If they could fly buy it, but as a rule they bounce once and then don’t do much else.


Born-agains, can’t live with them, and I’m all out of lions…

A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything. Friedrich Nietzsche
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02-03-2012, 11:50 PM (This post was last modified: 02-03-2012 11:58 PM by bjgodsimage.)
RE: Can anyone explain how this wasn't God?
(02-03-2012 11:06 PM)Karl Wrote:  
(02-03-2012 10:06 PM)bjgodsimage Wrote:  Even though we deserve God’s punishment

For what?

We all get a voice in our heads from time to time, it’s much better, psychology speaking, if it’s your own.
Drugs fuck with your head, that’s why people take them.
What you had was a voice in your head telling you something you wanted to hear after taking something that seeps into your brain and starts flicking switches.

Not a miracle, unless god gets into people to tell them they can fly after taking acid is also a miracle?
If they could fly buy it, but as a rule they bounce once and then don’t do much else.


Born-agains, can’t live with them, and I’m all out of lions…

do you believe there is a god, if so you would believe the bible, and you would believe the bible from its own perspective, and not your own perspective, if not Hebrews 11:3, but you can only believe if you want to and when you do oh trust me you wont be disappointed, but i was not under the influence when i heard his voice, and i tend to fall when i get around a bad atmosphere basically cuz i care to much about what people think,so one day when i got saved i was layin in bed he said, "let your light shine through darkness, For people will Be changed Because of your light" straight out the mouth of god, and let me tell you when you get saved, you wont only hear from god, you also hear from the devil, because you are spiritually active when your saved! i heard from the devil 1 night, i was layin down thinking about how i lack love(which god revealed to me earlier that night) and i was adding things up about actions and emotions in my past that makes sense to the root of the issue, which is how i lacked love, and the devil said "wait wait, shutup shutup shutup" the spiritual realm is more real than the physical, because the physical came from the spiitual
(02-03-2012 03:01 PM)kineo Wrote:  
(02-03-2012 02:33 PM)bjgodsimage Wrote:  your right, but god already drawn us, we are now able to come to the father through jesus, all of us, ever since jesus died on the cross we were compatible with god again, its not like jesus comes and chooses people every now and then and they end up saved, because thats a form of judgement, and love dont judge, and god loves all of us, through the blood of jesus and only the blood of jesus we can go to god, nothing else besides the blood of jesus, because he gave us salvation through that blood, and with salvation we may have a relationship with god again.

How did you manage to write all of that without even one period and no caps? Do you expect people to understand what you're saying? I'm not usually a grammar nazi but come on- if your message is that important than take some damn time and write it clearly! Angry

Do you want people to read what you have to say? Then consider your reader. Clearly you don't care one bit about your reader otherwise you'd make the message as understandable as possible. That requires formatting, grammar, and punctuation.

Are you posting from a phone or something?
(02-03-2012 02:58 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(02-03-2012 02:57 PM)kineo Wrote:  
(02-03-2012 02:21 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(02-03-2012 02:11 PM)kineo Wrote:  I don't know why I bother, but I read the whole thing. Both the OP and this new BJ post.

Do I get a medal? Some kind of an award?

I just want something that I can look on and remember this accomplishment! Big Grin

Here, I found this outside. Enjoy.

Gee... thanks. I'll uh... treasure that for... oh screw it, no I won't- you can keep it. Dodgy

No really. You can have it. Seriously. Here.

You picked it up first, it's yours! Big Grin

im sorry, ill try better, but keep reading the new posts
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03-03-2012, 12:05 AM
RE: Can anyone explain how this wasn't God?
(02-03-2012 10:06 PM)bjgodsimage Wrote:  i wasnt rambling i was just writing what god put in my spirit, honestly. And i said your right cuz i didnt want to come at you but ill keep it 100 with you this time, Your Wrong.(no offense).

No offense to you, but I don't think you really want to start this debate with me.

Quote:You said, ‘You can only become a christian if GOD draws you’, which you might have got from John 6:44, ‘No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.’

To understand this, we need to look at the Biblical background of this passage. In the beginning God created us to be in a loving relationship with him. The picture in the garden of Eden was of God and humanity in a close relationship - God provided everything they needed and gave them the responsibility to look after the world. So from the start we can say that God wanted EVERYONE to be close to him (Gen 2:4-17)

Oh man... where do I start?

Okay, first the Genesis account has zero to do with what is said in John. The Genesis 2 account is about the covenant relationship that God made with mankind (ha-adam). This covenant relationship is made with mankind and was created to be broken so that God's plan for Christ could be fulfilled.

I go into more detail about Genesis here.

Now, back to "everyone" and what is said in John. The Greek is clear. The context of what Jesus is saying is clear. He is speaking to the Jews in the synagogue and with His disciples. He explains to them that only God can draw a person and this is further enforced in v65:

65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”


The Greek is in no way ambiguous. Move along to John 8 for even more blatancy.

42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.”

Here Jesus is talking to the religious leaders. He says that they can never know the things of God because they are not of God.

The Bible is absolutely chocked full of evidence of election. I feel like I'm beating a dead horse, but read Romans 9 if you want even more.

No one can choose God. God chooses His own.

Quote:But that’s not the way it is today. What happened? Well it’s not that God changed his mind. On the contrary, Adam and Eve decided that they wanted to rule the world without God. They disobeyed his instructions and were banished from the beautiful garden God had provided and the close relationship with God that He intended. Adam and Eve died spiritually that day. So it’s not that God turned his back on us, but we turned our back on Him. This is what we call sin, and this infected the hearts of everyone who has been born since Adam and Eve. The natural state of the human heart is to reject God’s rule of our lives and a close relationship with him.

Your portrayal of God is a near-sighted fool. God is all powerful and all knowing. He created evil (Isaiah 45:7 - Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I [am] Jehovah, doing all these things.') and He created sin. He created humanity to fall. If He did not, the He could not have foreseen or planned Christ's sacrifice. Yes, Adam experienced a spiritual death because he broke the covenant with God; however, this was a part of God's plan. A sinful nature was bestowed upon humanity when God place His image upon us because He had to create humanity imperfect. When that sin took place, the covenant was broken.

Quote:So when Jesus says ‘No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him’, it’s not because God doesn’t want us to be close to him. It’s because WE don’t want to be close to GOD. What we need is a radical change of heart. Only God can change our hearts, and that’s why he sent Jesus.

You're contradicting yourself and agreeing with me now. We cannot choose to be of God, only God can regenerate our hearts.

Quote:God sent Jesus to show the world that even though we don’t want a relationship with God, he still wants a relationship with us. Even though we deserve God’s punishment, Jesus died to save us and bring us back to God. This is what Jesus says about his death, ‘And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself’. (John 12:32) Jesus was lifted up on the cross so that ALL people would be drawn back to God. Once again we see God’s desire that all people have a relationship with Him.

You need to study your Greek. "All" there does not mean a collective "all". Pas means "every type", "every kind", or the "whole" of a group. Jesus is saying that His death is for all types of men; not just Jews (as He was addressing Jews).

Quote:So to answer your question, God is drawing all people to himself through the cross of Jesus. The verse in John 6:44 is NOT saying that even if you want to be born again you can’t unless God draws you. It’s saying that since everyone is sinful, no one wants to be a Christian without God changing his or her heart.

That IS absolutely what it is saying. John 8 clearly describes that those that are not of God cannot understand the things of God. Only God can draw us, so therefore, we can only understand the things of God if God draws us.

You are bastardizing the context and jumping through mental hoops to make your explanation work.

Quote:This is really good news for anyone who wants to be born again. Because you wouldn’t feel that way unless God IS drawing you to himself. It’s natural to want to reject God, but it’s supernatural to want to become a Christian. If you feel like you want to be born again, then you can be sure that GOD IS DRAWING YOU. Without him drawing you, you wouldn’t want to know him. So if you want to be born again, it’s because God has changed your heart. The only thing to do now is pray and thank God for drawing you to him. Accept his wonderful gift of forgiveness and eternal life, and know that you are born again through Jesus!

See above. You don't choose. God chooses. You can't know God if you aren't of God; therefore, those that aren't of God can't be drawn to Him. No everyone can be saved. Salvation is only for those that were elected from the beginning (Eph 1:4-5).

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03-03-2012, 12:56 AM
RE: Can anyone explain how this wasn't God?
(03-03-2012 12:05 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(02-03-2012 10:06 PM)bjgodsimage Wrote:  i wasnt rambling i was just writing what god put in my spirit, honestly. And i said your right cuz i didnt want to come at you but ill keep it 100 with you this time, Your Wrong.(no offense).

No offense to you, but I don't think you really want to start this debate with me.

Quote:You said, ‘You can only become a christian if GOD draws you’, which you might have got from John 6:44, ‘No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.’

To understand this, we need to look at the Biblical background of this passage. In the beginning God created us to be in a loving relationship with him. The picture in the garden of Eden was of God and humanity in a close relationship - God provided everything they needed and gave them the responsibility to look after the world. So from the start we can say that God wanted EVERYONE to be close to him (Gen 2:4-17)

Oh man... where do I start?

Okay, first the Genesis account has zero to do with what is said in John. The Genesis 2 account is about the covenant relationship that God made with mankind (ha-adam). This covenant relationship is made with mankind and was created to be broken so that God's plan for Christ could be fulfilled.

I go into more detail about Genesis here.

Now, back to "everyone" and what is said in John. The Greek is clear. The context of what Jesus is saying is clear. He is speaking to the Jews in the synagogue and with His disciples. He explains to them that only God can draw a person and this is further enforced in v65:

65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”


The Greek is in no way ambiguous. Move along to John 8 for even more blatancy.

42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.”

Here Jesus is talking to the religious leaders. He says that they can never know the things of God because they are not of God.

The Bible is absolutely chocked full of evidence of election. I feel like I'm beating a dead horse, but read Romans 9 if you want even more.

No one can choose God. God chooses His own.

Quote:But that’s not the way it is today. What happened? Well it’s not that God changed his mind. On the contrary, Adam and Eve decided that they wanted to rule the world without God. They disobeyed his instructions and were banished from the beautiful garden God had provided and the close relationship with God that He intended. Adam and Eve died spiritually that day. So it’s not that God turned his back on us, but we turned our back on Him. This is what we call sin, and this infected the hearts of everyone who has been born since Adam and Eve. The natural state of the human heart is to reject God’s rule of our lives and a close relationship with him.

Your portrayal of God is a near-sighted fool. God is all powerful and all knowing. He created evil (Isaiah 45:7 - Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I [am] Jehovah, doing all these things.') and He created sin. He created humanity to fall. If He did not, the He could not have foreseen or planned Christ's sacrifice. Yes, Adam experienced a spiritual death because he broke the covenant with God; however, this was a part of God's plan. A sinful nature was bestowed upon humanity when God place His image upon us because He had to create humanity imperfect. When that sin took place, the covenant was broken.

Quote:So when Jesus says ‘No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him’, it’s not because God doesn’t want us to be close to him. It’s because WE don’t want to be close to GOD. What we need is a radical change of heart. Only God can change our hearts, and that’s why he sent Jesus.

You're contradicting yourself and agreeing with me now. We cannot choose to be of God, only God can regenerate our hearts.

Quote:God sent Jesus to show the world that even though we don’t want a relationship with God, he still wants a relationship with us. Even though we deserve God’s punishment, Jesus died to save us and bring us back to God. This is what Jesus says about his death, ‘And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself’. (John 12:32) Jesus was lifted up on the cross so that ALL people would be drawn back to God. Once again we see God’s desire that all people have a relationship with Him.

You need to study your Greek. "All" there does not mean a collective "all". Pas means "every type", "every kind", or the "whole" of a group. Jesus is saying that His death is for all types of men; not just Jews (as He was addressing Jews).

Quote:So to answer your question, God is drawing all people to himself through the cross of Jesus. The verse in John 6:44 is NOT saying that even if you want to be born again you can’t unless God draws you. It’s saying that since everyone is sinful, no one wants to be a Christian without God changing his or her heart.

That IS absolutely what it is saying. John 8 clearly describes that those that are not of God cannot understand the things of God. Only God can draw us, so therefore, we can only understand the things of God if God draws us.

You are bastardizing the context and jumping through mental hoops to make your explanation work.

Quote:This is really good news for anyone who wants to be born again. Because you wouldn’t feel that way unless God IS drawing you to himself. It’s natural to want to reject God, but it’s supernatural to want to become a Christian. If you feel like you want to be born again, then you can be sure that GOD IS DRAWING YOU. Without him drawing you, you wouldn’t want to know him. So if you want to be born again, it’s because God has changed your heart. The only thing to do now is pray and thank God for drawing you to him. Accept his wonderful gift of forgiveness and eternal life, and know that you are born again through Jesus!

See above. You don't choose. God chooses. You can't know God if you aren't of God; therefore, those that aren't of God can't be drawn to Him. No everyone can be saved. Salvation is only for those that were elected from the beginning (Eph 1:4-5).

first of all, God did not plan adam and eve to fall, he is all knowing, but he also gave us free will because he loves us, if he controlled us then that wouldnt be fun to him, we would be robots, it wouldnt be that perfect relationship hes looking for, adam and eve was tempted from the devil, and ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, god only gave them the knowledge of good, therefore they knew no sin, he said dont eat from that tree, when the devil tempted them to eat, knowledge of evil entered them, and sin manifested among them. Now, about isaiah 45:7, god did not create evil i form the light, and create darkness - Light, in the Bible, is the emblem of knowledge, innocence, pure religion, and of prosperity in general; and darkness is the emblem of the opposite. Light here seems to be the emblem of peace and prosperity, and darkness the emblem of adversity; and the sentiment of the verse is, that all things prosperous and adverse are under the providential control and direction of God. Of light, it is literally true that God made it; and emblematically true that he is the source of knowledge, prosperity, happiness, and pure religion. Of darkness, it is literally true also that the night is formed by him; that he withdraws the light of the sun, and leaves the earth enveloped in gloomy shades. It is emblematically true also that calamity, ignorance, disappointment, and want of success are ordered by him; and not less true that all the moral darkness, or evil, that prevails on earth, is under the direction and ordering of his Providence. There is no reason to think, however, that the words 'darkness' and 'evil' are to be understood as referring to moral darkness; that is, sin........ Now i want you to read this and tell me what you think about it http://biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?qui...ersion=NLT click the link jus like that , or copy, and the most famous verse in the bible John 3:16! God loved the world so much he sent his only begotten son, His only son, why would he plan to have his son crucified, it just makes no sense, , that WHOSOEVER believe in him, shall never die but have everlasting life. and i want you to listen to fred hammond-living word..... only if u want to
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03-03-2012, 01:16 AM
RE: Can anyone explain how this wasn't God?
(03-03-2012 12:56 AM)bjgodsimage Wrote:  first of all, God did not plan adam and eve to fall, he is all knowing, but he also gave us free will because he loves us, if he controlled us then that wouldnt be fun to him, we would be robots, it wouldnt be that perfect relationship hes looking for,

That's your rebuttal? It wouldn't be "fun" for God? If God did not plan for Adam and Eve to fall then how did God plan for Christ? Was God that short-sighted that He had to scurry to think of a plan to fix what Adam and Eve did? Again, your portrayal of God is a fool.

Quote:adam and eve was tempted from the devil, and ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, god only gave them the knowledge of good, therefore they knew no sin, he said dont eat from that tree, when the devil tempted them to eat, knowledge of evil entered them, and sin manifested among them.

If they knew no sin, then how could they sin? How can something that is perfect choose to be imperfect? If something that is perfect chooses to do something imperfect, then they were never perfect to begin with. Besides, your information of when sin entered the world is wrong. Satan sinned long before Adam and Eve.

Quote:Now, about isaiah 45:7, god did not create evil i form the light, and create darkness - Light, in the Bible, is the emblem of knowledge, innocence, pure religion, and of prosperity in general; and darkness is the emblem of the opposite. Light here seems to be the emblem of peace and prosperity, and darkness the emblem of adversity; and the sentiment of the verse is, that all things prosperous and adverse are under the providential control and direction of God. Of light, it is literally true that God made it; and emblematically true that he is the source of knowledge, prosperity, happiness, and pure religion. Of darkness, it is literally true also that the night is formed by him; that he withdraws the light of the sun, and leaves the earth enveloped in gloomy shades. It is emblematically true also that calamity, ignorance, disappointment, and want of success are ordered by him; and not less true that all the moral darkness, or evil, that prevails on earth, is under the direction and ordering of his Providence. There is no reason to think, however, that the words 'darkness' and 'evil' are to be understood as referring to moral darkness; that is, sin........

/sigh

That's a load of malarkey.

Studying your Hebrew. None of what you said means ANYTHING of what the verse said.

Light literally means "light" or "illumination". It doesn't mean any of that New Agey crap you posted. Likewise, darkness means "darkness" and evil means "bad", "evil" or "affliction". Again, all literally. Isaiah wasn't talking in the figurative sense. The context is listing God's literal attributes.

Quote:Now i want you to read this and tell me what you think about it http://biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?qui...ersion=NLT click the link jus like that , or copy, and the most famous verse in the bible John 3:16! God loved the world so much he sent his only begotten son, His only son, why would he plan to have his son crucified, it just makes no sense, , that WHOSOEVER believe in him, shall never die but have everlasting life. and i want you to listen to fred hammond-living word..... only if u want to

Again, study your Greek. In John 3:16, the phrase "whosoever will" is not in the original language. The Greek literally reads "the believing ones". In essence, even John 3:16 limits the atonement and the purpose of the coming of Christ to only "the believing ones". These believing one, elect, are found scattered all throughout the world in every nation, tribe, and tongue.

It literally reads, "in order that all the believing ones in him" the "believing ones" is a participle that is being used as a noun to refer to a specific group of people.

Also, ‎"all" does not mean "whosoever". Furthermore, in the sentence structure "pas" is an adjective that describes the participle "believing ones" and thus describes "all" in that specific group, ie, the believing ones, not every individual that ever lived.

John 3:16

Edit: If you are going to argue scripture, please do not quote from a dynamic translation.

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03-03-2012, 01:29 AM
RE: Can anyone explain how this wasn't God?
(02-03-2012 11:06 PM)Karl Wrote:  
(02-03-2012 10:06 PM)bjgodsimage Wrote:  Even though we deserve God’s punishment

For what?

We all get a voice in our heads from time to time, it’s much better, psychology speaking, if it’s your own.
Drugs fuck with your head, that’s why people take them.
What you had was a voice in your head telling you something you wanted to hear after taking something that seeps into your brain and starts flicking switches.

Not a miracle, unless god gets into people to tell them they can fly after taking acid is also a miracle?
If they could fly buy it, but as a rule they bounce once and then don’t do much else.


Born-agains, can’t live with them, and I’m all out of lions…

and we deserve gods punishment because he hates sin, he hates evil and in the bible days, he opened up the earth and swallowed people whole because of sin, rebellious sin, he turned a whole see into blood and the fish died so because the people of that villiage was rebellious they faced the wrath of god, they story of the prince of egypt where the pharoh wouldnt let gods chosen people go, he plagued them with something different everyday for ten days until the pharoh gave up, its an interesting story, but thats how much god hates sin, and the reason why he dont do it now is because he sees the work of jesus in us, so he has mercy and grace on us because he no looks at us as his own sons again, we were brought back to him and hes satisfied. and just fyi God made us speak different languages because everyone wanted to stay on the same spot and build one big empire, but he didn't want that and made everyone speak different languages, interesting right
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03-03-2012, 01:33 AM
RE: Can anyone explain how this wasn't God?
Speaking of Moses and Pharaoh, God forced Pharaoh to sin.

Exodus 9:12
12 And the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he did not listen to them, just as the LORD had spoken to Moses.

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03-03-2012, 01:51 AM
RE: Can anyone explain how this wasn't God?
(03-03-2012 01:33 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Speaking of Moses and Pharaoh, God forced Pharaoh to sin.

Exodus 9:12
12 And the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he did not listen to them, just as the LORD had spoken to Moses.

He didnt force him to sin, in fact god gave him numerous chances, and he still didnt let gods people worship him, in return Now the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart - Before he had hardened his own heart, and resisted the grace of God, and now God justly gave him up to his own heart's lusts, to strong delusions, permitting Satan to blind and harden him. Wilful hardness is commonly punished with judicial hardness. Let us dread this as the sorest judgment a man can be under on this side hell,God gave him up to judicial hardness of heart, to his own corruptions, the temptations of Satan, and the lying magicians about him, to make an ill use of everything that offered to him, and put a wrong construction on all that befell him, so that whatever was said to him, or inflicted on him, made no impression to any purpose
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