Can anyone suggest a good book or blog?
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04-05-2012, 03:47 PM
RE: Can anyone suggest a good book or blog?
Egor Smile You're actually a pretty good guy really. A man who can still change the way he thinks this late in the game - I hope that I have that capability as I get older. When you first came here you were a hardcore anti-atheist guy. I thought... you know, no ways, this is one of those guys who will never change. He's got all the answers already. And yet, you proved me wrong. You showed that you're not just gonna swallow pat answers just because they feel good. Sure, you replaced them with something which seems quite wacky to me even so Tongue BUT... I mean that post you wrote just now about hypocrisy and loving your neighbour and that... That shows clear thinking. That's thinking for yourself, realising "there's no way I'm gonna put up with this bullshit even if I'm told that it's God approved". I salute you Smile I hope you continue to explore like this Smile

I'm afraid I don't have a book recommendation to make this post even vaguely on topic Tongue Except that I despise the ending of the His Dark Materials trilogy. It was weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeak! Compared to the almost unparalleled amazingness of the first two books...
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04-05-2012, 06:14 PM
RE: Can anyone suggest a good book or blog?
(04-05-2012 02:28 PM)Egor Wrote:  
(03-05-2012 04:36 PM)kim Wrote:  Variety is good for the mind, try the book - The Man In The High Castle ~ Philip K Dick

It's quite engrossing and very well written.

Haven't re-read it in ages and am thinking of doing so if I get some time this year.

Thank you. I checked it out on Amazon, but I'm looking for a more recent work. He has a lot of novels out though. I'm sure he's a great writer.

(03-05-2012 08:56 PM)lightninlives Wrote:  I actually don't believe that atheism is a choice, so I won't encourage you take the plunge.

You know, I'm beginning to think you're right. I couldn't be an atheist if I tried, given what I've experienced. But what would I be if I had not experienced those things? I can tell you this, I am so sickened by the modern Christian Church, and God knows it, that if I hadn't had my personal experiences, I'd have ditched the whole kit and kaboodle, just like atheist do.

I mean, let me ask you this: What does it mean to believe in Jesus Christ? Follow his teachings? Admit that his adherence to the truth is the only way to God? What? To be quite honest, I don't know. And that was 2000 years ago. We have the Gospel message. I get it; I really do, but hell, so do most atheists. Is hypocrisy wrong? Is gross materialism wrong? Is not seeking the truth wrong? Is hating your neighbor wrong? Is loving your neighbor right? Most atheists would answer yes to all those, just like me. And Jesus never seemed to make it a requirement to believe in God. His disciples said, "Show us the Father." He didn't give them an argument, he just said "Look at me." In other words, I'm beginning to wonder whether believing in God even matters.

I personally believe when we die and enter our lucid spiritual plane, that God will be even more unobservable then than he is now, because we will be filling most of the shoes he wears here in this universe.

I will always believe in God. I will always pray to God and listen to God, that's not even a question. But I'm wondering how important my fight against atheism really is. Just believing in God in an atheist forum may be all the fight that's required.

I don't know. I've just been thinking a lot.
Hey Egor, hallo! Congratulations! What you have just admitted is really big of you.

Re "I will always believe in God. I will always pray to God and listen to God, that's not even a question." That's fine. There's nothing too much wrong with that. One step at a time. Be aware of the Concorde fallacy.

I want to share something with you, and this is not meant to sound patronising. I genuinely care for you. I've spent many years researching and writing, not to become famous or to make money, but because I'm a humanist who cares for people. So what, you may ask?

Well, it is my heartfelt, genuine opinion that Christianity degrades societies and damages the psychological health of individuals. I think you are starting to realise that too. I want to do my bit to fight it. My soon to be published book is titled "Get Over Christianity by Understanding It" You are asking for interesting blogs to review. Have a read of http://www.markfulton.org/christianity-a...al-society and http://www.markfulton.org/the-psychologi...ristianity

I ask you to consider something. The gospels you hold so dear just aren't that great, and are one of the causes of the Christian bigotry and intolerance you are now realising is such an issue. Please read http://www.markfulton.org/jesus-the-xenophobe, http://www.markfulton.org/was-“jesus”-a-...ilosopher, http://www.markfulton.org/jesus-threaten...-with-hell

I assume you have chosen to discard the writings of Paul in your own cult because Paul was a bat-shit crazy bigot? I ask you to realise that, although Christ allegedly spouted the odd admirable anecdote, he wasn't that much better!

Please try not to respond by firing bullets. Its boring. I don't like doing it either. Let's concentrate on the issues. Regards, Mark
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04-05-2012, 08:37 PM
RE: Can anyone suggest a good book or blog?
(04-05-2012 02:28 PM)Egor Wrote:  
(03-05-2012 04:36 PM)kim Wrote:  Variety is good for the mind, try the book - The Man In The High Castle ~ Philip K Dick

It's quite engrossing and very well written.

Haven't re-read it in ages and am thinking of doing so if I get some time this year.

Thank you. I checked it out on Amazon, but I'm looking for a more recent work. He has a lot of novels out though. I'm sure he's a great writer.

(03-05-2012 08:56 PM)lightninlives Wrote:  I actually don't believe that atheism is a choice, so I won't encourage you take the plunge.

You know, I'm beginning to think you're right. I couldn't be an atheist if I tried, given what I've experienced. But what would I be if I had not experienced those things? I can tell you this, I am so sickened by the modern Christian Church, and God knows it, that if I hadn't had my personal experiences, I'd have ditched the whole kit and kaboodle, just like atheist do.

I mean, let me ask you this: What does it mean to believe in Jesus Christ? Follow his teachings? Admit that his adherence to the truth is the only way to God? What? To be quite honest, I don't know. And that was 2000 years ago. We have the Gospel message. I get it; I really do, but hell, so do most atheists. Is hypocrisy wrong? Is gross materialism wrong? Is not seeking the truth wrong? Is hating your neighbor wrong? Is loving your neighbor right? Most atheists would answer yes to all those, just like me. And Jesus never seemed to make it a requirement to believe in God. His disciples said, "Show us the Father." He didn't give them an argument, he just said "Look at me." In other words, I'm beginning to wonder whether believing in God even matters.

I personally believe when we die and enter our lucid spiritual plane, that God will be even more unobservable then than he is now, because we will be filling most of the shoes he wears here in this universe.

I will always believe in God. I will always pray to God and listen to God, that's not even a question. But I'm wondering how important my fight against atheism really is. Just believing in God in an atheist forum may be all the fight that's required.

I don't know. I've just been thinking a lot.
It's all good man. The only thing I would say is that you should question everything. And I mean everything (your experiences, whether or not it's necessary to pray to god, listen to god, etc). It's scary at first but ultimately liberating.

P.S. I couldn't find your RSS feed for your blog. Do you have one? I want to subscribe so that I can get your posts in my Google Reader.

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05-05-2012, 01:34 AM
 
RE: Can anyone suggest a good book or blog?
(04-05-2012 03:47 PM)morondog Wrote:  Egor Smile You're actually a pretty good guy really. A man who can still change the way he thinks this late in the game - I hope that I have that capability as I get older. When you first came here you were a hardcore anti-atheist guy. I thought... you know, no ways, this is one of those guys who will never change. He's got all the answers already. And yet, you proved me wrong. You showed that you're not just gonna swallow pat answers just because they feel good. Sure, you replaced them with something which seems quite wacky to me even so Tongue BUT... I mean that post you wrote just now about hypocrisy and loving your neighbour and that... That shows clear thinking. That's thinking for yourself, realising "there's no way I'm gonna put up with this bullshit even if I'm told that it's God approved". I salute you Smile I hope you continue to explore like this Smile

I'm afraid I don't have a book recommendation to make this post even vaguely on topic Tongue Except that I despise the ending of the His Dark Materials trilogy. It was weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeak! Compared to the almost unparalleled amazingness of the first two books...


Thanks, Dog.

I try to think clearly. And I'm trying to reconcile my experience with this "Christian" novel, what I have seen of Christian behavior lately, and the absolute idiocy of the religious doctrines with atheism. I mean, I think that atheism is an easy out because it throws out the baby with the bathwater, but then I think "What the hell are thinking people supposed to think?"
(04-05-2012 06:14 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  I assume you have chosen to discard the writings of Paul in your own cult because Paul was a bat-shit crazy bigot?

I ask you to realise that, although Christ allegedly spouted the odd admirable anecdote, he wasn't that much better!

Please try not to respond by firing bullets. Its boring. I don't like doing it either. Let's concentrate on the issues. Regards, Mark


You again.

(04-05-2012 08:37 PM)lightninlives Wrote:  It's all good man. The only thing I would say is that you should question everything. And I mean everything (your experiences, whether or not it's necessary to pray to god, listen to god, etc). It's scary at first but ultimately liberating.

I'm not going to question my experiences. How does one do that anyway? And I'll never be an atheist. I'm just not sure it matters that much to God if a person is an atheist. I mean if God really cared then why make all the animals ignorant of his existence--or at least it appears they are. It's also interesting to me that Jesus never addresses atheism. And why should atheists go to hell, per se? Because they don't receive a revelation from the Gospels? Why not just destroy them upon death. Hell could be for the televangelists. Hell could easily be reincarnation. I would consider reincarnation hell.

And here's another oddity. I come to atheist forums so I can have spiritual discussions. I can't get these discussions in a Christian forum. I'd be banned. And I'd run into the demons out there who actually like "The Shack."

Frankly, I'm beginning to have some sympathy for atheists, and if I'm having that sympathy, what would God have being much wiser and greater than me? And...uh...maybe it has never been my place to say who's going to hell and who isn't. Jesus never said atheists were going to hell.

But for me to be an atheist. Oh hell no.

Quote:P.S. I couldn't find your RSS feed for your blog. Do you have one? I want to subscribe so that I can get your posts in my Google Reader.


I will look into that next week. Thanks for letting me know about it.
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05-05-2012, 06:15 AM
RE: Can anyone suggest a good book or blog?
How bout this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Canticle-Leibowitz...ap_title_0

I just finished it. If the reviews interest you, I'll be glad to mail it to you for shipping cost alone (probably $3-ish). Let me know.
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05-05-2012, 06:30 AM
RE: Can anyone suggest a good book or blog?
Biblical Nonsense: A Review of the Bible for the Doubting Christian.
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05-05-2012, 10:34 AM (This post was last modified: 05-05-2012 10:41 AM by zihuatanejo.)
RE: Can anyone suggest a good book or blog?
Quote: I try to think clearly. And I'm trying to reconcile my experience with this "Christian" novel, what I have seen of Christian behavior lately, and the absolute idiocy of the religious doctrines with atheism. I mean,
I think that atheism is an easy out because it throws out the baby with the bathwater, but then I think "What the hell are thinking people supposed to think?"
"Thinking people" is the key expression, "thinking" being the operative word. Thinking people are supposed to think, religious people are supposed to obey. "What the hell will they think?" Whatever they want. They're free to do so. That way they become responsible for the choices they make. Atheism is not an easy out. It takes a lot of work to think, and a lot of effort to make this a better world instead of waiting for god to either help us or blast us into oblivion. It's not easy to be responsible for your actions when you can just as well do something stupid and instead of apologizing to the person you offended, you can ask god to forgive you. *That* is an easy out. *God* is the easy out. God takes your responsibility away, along with your freedom. And it's not throwing the baby out with the bathwater either, when you realize that there's no baby and no water to begin with. Meaning that if there's no god, you're not throwing anything away but reclaiming your own self back.
Quote: I'm not going to question my experiences. How does one do that anyway? And I'll never be an atheist.
I can guarantee you that many atheists, including myself, have had a lot of experiences. Heck, if we started talking about mine alone we would be here all day. I know that the experiences were real. I'm not denying them for one second. But what I've learned to question is the *source* of those experiences. As I started educating myself about biology, brain chemistry, psychology, physics and a myriad other topics I've understood that there's a perfectly normal explanation for my experiences without having to resort to any magic or gods.

Also, are you an a-mermaidist? An a-unicornist? An a-dragonist? You don't even think about that, and there's no difference with being an atheist. You just don't believe in mermaids, unicorns or dragons even though there are nice drawings and even movies made about them; you know they're fantasy, and the same will happen with god when you realize that god is a fantasy, too. You probably still feel that being an atheist is something bad, like being a thief or a murderer; that's the indoctrination talking, and it takes time and effort to overcome that feeling. It will pass.
Quote: And here's another oddity. I come to atheist forums so I can have spiritual discussions. I can't get these discussions in a Christian forum. I'd be banned. And I'd run into the demons out there who actually
like "The Shack."
That's because an atheist is a skeptic above all. We've learned to question things, look at the evidence, and re-examine things that we thought were true but, in light of new evidence, aren't anymore. We're not afraid of the questioning. I question myself constantly and that makes living a constant learning and growing experience, and it makes me a better person as a result, as I've expanded my understanding of other people that I once considered weird or "lost" and came to acknowledge and accept my own flaws better. So I'm glad that the questions are starting to surface for you, and that you're willing to have discussions with people who are not afraid to think for themselves. Do not stop thinking and in the end, even if you were to arrive to the same conclusions (which I doubt), at least you would have done so freely and not as a result of shutting down your brain and surrendering your freedom to dogma and indoctrination.
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05-05-2012, 02:30 PM
RE: Can anyone suggest a good book or blog?
Hey Egor - A little off the type of book you were after but I highly recommend Brothers Karamazov if you haven't read it already.

" Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous."
David Hume
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06-05-2012, 07:51 AM
RE: Can anyone suggest a good book or blog?
(04-05-2012 02:28 PM)Egor Wrote:  
(03-05-2012 04:36 PM)kim Wrote:  Variety is good for the mind, try the book - The Man In The High Castle ~ Philip K Dick

It's quite engrossing and very well written.

Haven't re-read it in ages and am thinking of doing so if I get some time this year.

Thank you. I checked it out on Amazon, but I'm looking for a more recent work. He has a lot of novels out though. I'm sure he's a great writer.

(03-05-2012 08:56 PM)lightninlives Wrote:  I actually don't believe that atheism is a choice, so I won't encourage you take the plunge.

You know, I'm beginning to think you're right. I couldn't be an atheist if I tried, given what I've experienced. But what would I be if I had not experienced those things? I can tell you this, I am so sickened by the modern Christian Church, and God knows it, that if I hadn't had my personal experiences, I'd have ditched the whole kit and kaboodle, just like atheist do.

I mean, let me ask you this: What does it mean to believe in Jesus Christ? Follow his teachings? Admit that his adherence to the truth is the only way to God? What? To be quite honest, I don't know. And that was 2000 years ago. We have the Gospel message. I get it; I really do, but hell, so do most atheists. Is hypocrisy wrong? Is gross materialism wrong? Is not seeking the truth wrong? Is hating your neighbor wrong? Is loving your neighbor right? Most atheists would answer yes to all those, just like me. And Jesus never seemed to make it a requirement to believe in God. His disciples said, "Show us the Father." He didn't give them an argument, he just said "Look at me." In other words, I'm beginning to wonder whether believing in God even matters.

I personally believe when we die and enter our lucid spiritual plane, that God will be even more unobservable then than he is now, because we will be filling most of the shoes he wears here in this universe.

I will always believe in God. I will always pray to God and listen to God, that's not even a question. But I'm wondering how important my fight against atheism really is. Just believing in God in an atheist forum may be all the fight that's required.

I don't know. I've just been thinking a lot.
The magic words! I'm impressed, hope this new Egor sticks around a while.

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06-05-2012, 03:26 PM
RE: Can anyone suggest a good book or blog?
"I'm not going to question my experiences. How does one do that anyway?

It's actually quite easy. Many ex-theists have done it. I sure as heck had to do a lot of it, because I was sure my subjective experiences (including some acid trips) were 100% undeniable proof of god. But they weren't. This goes back to one of those wonderful words that I've discovered in recent years: "Unfalsifiable"


"I'm just not sure it matters that much to God if a person is an atheist. I mean if God really cared then why make all the animals ignorant of his existence--or at least it appears they are. It's also interesting to me that Jesus never addresses atheism. And why should atheists go to hell, per se? Because they don't receive a revelation from the Gospels?"

Yeah, I used to think the same way after I abandoned Christianity. In fact, I used to tell my mom this stuff (but it went in one ear and out the other).

Frankly, I'm beginning to have some sympathy for atheists, and if I'm having that sympathy, what would God have being much wiser and greater than me? And...uh...maybe it has never been my place to say who's going to hell and who isn't. Jesus never said atheists were going to hell.

But for me to be an atheist. Oh hell no."



My sincere suggestion is that you spend some time reading books and watching Youtube videos on the obsurdity of hell/heaven/eternal life. Even if you choose to continue believing in the god concept, I think that letting go of absurd concepts like heaven and hell will serve you well.

You mention twice that you will never be an atheist, so I just wanted to point out that:
1) absolutes are usually not a good thing (e.g. never say never)
2) I used to say the exact same thing (as have many atheists I've come across)
3) My friend, who transitioned from advaitism to a non-Hindu stance non-duality, often comments that he accepts both atheism and theism. He considers both dualistic constructs of the mind, neither of which a representative of objective reality, but both acceptable within his particular viewpoint (same goes for any other word or concept you can think of).

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