Can god create a contradiction?
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30-01-2012, 05:15 PM
RE: Can god create a contradiction?
LOL @ God. He can't pick up the rock.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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30-01-2012, 05:18 PM
RE: Can god create a contradiction?
(30-01-2012 04:34 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

KC, what I am trying to say is that you haven't made sense to me yet.

Until and unless you do, I can't tell you anything more than I already have.

It is possible that we are not speaking the same language.

Smile
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30-01-2012, 05:18 PM
RE: Can god create a contradiction?
(30-01-2012 05:10 PM)Reactor Wrote:  Points are a concept. The line is a concept. Numbers are a concept. So your example Jackrabbit is off
Am i the only one here that can't make sense from KC answers? Sad

Infinity is a concept and the singularity is an actual event that may have infinite properties.
I dunno what you're arguing against here.

Just like the unstoppable force and the immovable object.
A universe that has an unstoppable force cannot contain an immovable object.
A universe that has an immovable object cannot contain an unstoppable force.

For the Judeo-Christian-Islamic god to exist, it requires a plethora of universes
and cannot be contained in one so monotheism fails here.
In our universe we can either have an infinitely just god or an infinitely merciful god but not both.

"Yeah, good idea. Make them buy your invisible apple. Insist that they do. Market it properly and don't stop until they pay for it." -Malleus
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30-01-2012, 08:08 PM
RE: Can god create a contradiction?
I ain't Jewish, but I gotta go with my boy Boruch on this one:
Quote:If we define existence as that which God has, because the one thing we can say about God is that he exists, he is, he has a state… he exists in a state of absolute isness, in Hebrew that’s called Yeshut, isness, by in no way shape or form can I define myself relative to those terms. Meaning that’s a level of reality that is completely beyond time, completely beyond space, completely even beyond finite or infinite. God isn’t even infinite, he creates infinite reality and he creates finite reality. He’s beyond both. Which helps solve the problem how…. the philosophers asked how can it be that an infinite God creates finite reality. Judaism doesn’t see a problem whatsoever because God’s not infinite. God’s completely beyond limitation. Infinite reality itself is limited by virtue of the fact that it can’t express itself in a finite way. Finite reality is limited to the extent that it exists within the context of some sort of finite space, finite time. God is beyond both.
-Rabbi Boruch Kaplan

I'm not saying that God exists, but if he/she/it/they/shklee exists, then I can't imagine God being anything other than what Boruch outlines.

I just don't think it's logical for a limited creation to judge the creator based on those limited rules. Questions like, how tall is God is very plainly silly because it just simply doesn't apply. Can God create a contradiction is less obvious, but I think the same rules apply. If God is all powerful then yes, God can do whatever, paradox or no. If God is limited to what’s possible, then he’s not very God like; more like really smart and well financed. To be God like, he has to be capable of the impossible.

If God exists, he's gotta be beyond limit, at least as we comprehend limits.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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30-01-2012, 08:40 PM
RE: Can god create a contradiction?
Disclaimer: I don't believe in God.

BUT

I think this is a weak argument on our side.

Can God create a square circle or a married bachelor? Even though God can be omnipotent Logic is said to come from God as a rational being and exists necessarily. Thus God cannot defy logic and this doesn't speak to his omnipotence or lack thereof. Logically a statement like can he lift this rock must either be true or untrue, it can't be both. Therefore the statement is inherently illogical.

That would be me agreeing with C.S. Lewis.

Crap I just said that.

*self-flagellation ensues*

In science, "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional assent." I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms.

--Stephen Jay Gould
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30-01-2012, 09:37 PM
RE: Can god create a contradiction?
If God is bound by the rules of logic, how can he be said to be omnipotent? That just leaves him really, really powerful at best.
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31-01-2012, 06:32 AM
RE: Can god create a contradiction?
(30-01-2012 09:37 PM)Ben Wrote:  If God is bound by the rules of logic, how can he be said to be omnipotent? That just leaves him really, really powerful at best.

As I said in the OP:

Quote:It seems to me that you have two choices:

- Either you believe in the biblical god and give up your logical mind
- or you start seriously doubting the possibility of a christian god.

There is a third option (that most people do): Compartmentalize your brain into a logical and an irrational part. Big Grin
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31-01-2012, 08:19 AM
RE: Can god create a contradiction?
(30-01-2012 08:40 PM)scientician Wrote:  Disclaimer: I don't believe in God.

BUT

I think this is a weak argument on our side.

Can God create a square circle or a married bachelor? Even though God can be omnipotent Logic is said to come from God as a rational being and exists necessarily. Thus God cannot defy logic and this doesn't speak to his omnipotence or lack thereof. Logically a statement like can he lift this rock must either be true or untrue, it can't be both. Therefore the statement is inherently illogical.

That would be me agreeing with C.S. Lewis.

Crap I just said that.

*self-flagellation ensues*

You said it more perfectly than I could.

You can't have a perfectly round square... or something that is completely white but black. When you introduce these caveats the other ceases to be. Something can't be 100% if there is something else in it.

The perfect circle is no longer perfect. The white is no longer white. 100% is no longer 100%. If something is infinite, the finite ceases to be. If something is finite, the infinite ceases to be.

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31-01-2012, 08:28 AM
RE: Can god create a contradiction?
Isn't it funny, I start so many threads that I consider important, intriguing, fascinating -- about topics affecting us all, and then, once in a while, just for fun, I start a few silly threads like this one, or the "how do clones get their soul?" thread -- and they are the most popular ones! Huh

Can't figure it out! Big Grin
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31-01-2012, 08:34 AM
RE: Can god create a contradiction?
I do this all the time, Zat... like the Lucradis sig thing... or the CYOA...

SMH TTA

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