Can religion justify itself through the "good" it's done
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29-05-2011, 04:36 AM
RE: Can religion justify itself through the "good" it's done
(29-05-2011 01:13 AM)TAJD Wrote:  Yeah, This is all true, but another defense used was "religion is used as a shield by "evil" people to justify the terrible things theyve done.

I think there are some people who will distort religion to suit their own ends, especially historically it was used as a means of control. That cannot be used to explain away all the bad that is done in the name of religion though. Most bad stuff done in the name of religion (misogyny, homophobia, murder) complies fully with the teachings of scripture. In the Bible God preaches all of the above, anyone who practices them (murder in the relevant circumstances though, to be honest, I think indiscriminate murder would more accurately reflect the OT) is adhering to their scripture, they aren't distorting it to suit their own ends in any way.

I would think that only a tiny minority of the evil that has been done in the name of religion was done by people using it a 'shield' to justify their own terrible acts.

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29-05-2011, 04:51 AM
 
RE: Can religion justify itself through the "good" it's done
My understanding of Christianity is that it's all about sticking to the new testament which is much less violent and generally more politically correct than the old testament. Saying that though, Paul has a homophobic slant, and Jesus' miracles are laughable.
So the Old Testament is seen as the context to Jesus and his sort of thing, a friend said, "Christianity sets you free from the teachings of the old testament" not counting the ways thats wrong anyway, what I'd like to focus on is how the New Testament can be said to be hateful and discriminatory.

Thanks for the posts, I really wanted to clarify what I though on this issue this helps a lot.
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29-05-2011, 05:27 AM (This post was last modified: 29-05-2011 05:32 AM by Hughsie.)
RE: Can religion justify itself through the "good" it's done
I've always wondered why Christianity doesn't just drop the OT altogether. It's almost like God has undergone a lobotomy between the OT and NT. When I put that to my Grandma she replies that there are a lot of 'beautiful teachings' in the OT (such as the psalms I think) which I saw as more of the logically flawed argument I referenced earlier.

As with regards to hatefulness in the NT I can't really comment as I am not overly familiar with it. Again someone like Buddy Christ would be more qualified to comment I think. My problem with the NT isn't so much that it's full of hate, more the fact that it makes fuck all sense.

An omniscient being creates the world and sets criteria for going to either heaven or hell. Several thousand (if you're a YEC) years later he realises that no-one can get into heaven (a problem he didn't foresee despite his omniscience) because of sin. So rather than forgive people their sins or change his own criteria, God has himself incarnated in human form and then brutally killed to allow all the worlds sins to be forgiven (I still don't see the link between Jesus dying and sin).

Where's the logic in that? It's totally ridiculous and that's not even including the 'original sin' aspect that makes it even worse.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
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Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
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Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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29-05-2011, 10:15 AM
RE: Can religion justify itself through the "good" it's done
(29-05-2011 04:51 AM)TAJD Wrote:  My understanding of Christianity is that it's all about sticking to the new testament which is much less violent and generally more politically correct than the old testament. Saying that though, Paul has a homophobic slant, and Jesus' miracles are laughable.
So the Old Testament is seen as the context to Jesus and his sort of thing, a friend said, "Christianity sets you free from the teachings of the old testament" not counting the ways thats wrong anyway, what I'd like to focus on is how the New Testament can be said to be hateful and discriminatory.

Thanks for the posts, I really wanted to clarify what I though on this issue this helps a lot.

Skeptic's Annotated Bible will give you a list of atrocities/misogyny/homophobia etc. in both the OT and NT if you're curious.

That aside, the NT introduces the concept of hell: something that is not present in the OT. Eternal torment for finite "sins" is probably the most atrocious thing that's in the Bible and it's not even in the OT. How Christians reconcile that with their idea of a loving, forgiving Jesus, I don't know. Undecided

"Remember, my friend, that knowledge is stronger than memory, and we should not trust the weaker." - Dr. Van Helsing, Dracula
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29-05-2011, 08:46 PM
RE: Can religion justify itself through the "good" it's done
(28-05-2011 06:01 PM)hughsie Wrote:  
(28-05-2011 05:32 PM)TAJD Wrote:  I would argue that religion gives meaning to peoples lives ...

I would agree that religion gives meaning to the lives of believers but it's false meaning ...

First thing religion's gotta do to make up with me is to make up for that. ... I wish them luck.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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