Can religion tell us more than science?
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21-09-2011, 02:44 PM
RE: Can religion tell us more than science?
This reminds me of the "sparrow analogy" used by Bede (an early Anglo-Saxon author) in his writings.
Here's the analogy, summarized:
"We are inside a warm church while it is winter outside. A sparrow flies in the door or the church, lands on the altar for a few moments, then flies back out the door into the cold. For that brief moment the sparrow has entered and then exited our lives. We can witness what it does in the church, we can see and record its movements, and we can demonstrate to others that it is there. But what of its existence before it flew into the church? What will happen to it when it flies back out into the cold? What is its fate? We could never tell someone where it came from, where it went, or answer any other question about this sparrow."

To Bede, the sparrow is a human life. We fly into the church (the material world) we are here briefly, and then we are gone. But what of us before that? From whence did our consciousness spring? To where does it go?

These are the questions that religion seeks to answer.

In that sense, reallly, religion can tell us more than science. Science does not seek to answer these questions. Science exists to explain everything about the physical world. Religion does not.

So essentially, it depends on what you mean. Can religion tell us more about the motions of galaxies and the magnetic lines of flux of the sun? No. But can science tell us what happens after we die? No.

It's apples and oranges. Seeking the wrong type of answers from the wrong source is foolish and a waste of everyone's time.

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21-09-2011, 02:50 PM
 
RE: Can religion tell us more than science?
(21-09-2011 02:44 PM)17thknight Wrote:  Can religion tell us more about the motions of galaxies and the magnetic lines of flux of the sun? No.

Galileo would disagree with you on this one.

Quote:But can science tell us what happens after we die? No.

Science tells you that we will be most probably dead. Oblivion. Entropy Law. Science is honest.

Religion tells you: you go to heaven or hell or whatever. Based on exactly what data??? Religion is, in the best case, delusional.
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22-09-2011, 06:21 AM
RE: Can religion tell us more than science?
Religion can tell you, so far, nothing that you can't explore on your own. Sometimes it may make it easier, it helps you to find the questions you then have to answer.
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22-09-2011, 04:03 PM (This post was last modified: 22-09-2011 05:51 PM by Peterkin.)
RE: Can religion tell us more than science?
Religion does nothing and says nothing - nor does science.
People do.

In the name of [one specific] religion [at one specific moment in its theological development] a spokesman can declaim some answers to some question raised by some person within the framework of that religion.
Many, if not most, of these questions are bogus to begin with: People knew all about where sparrows come from and what's good to eat and why not to kill their annoying fathers, long before anybody codified a system of belief.
The answers are, of course, equally, if not more, bogus: People unencumbered by organized religion manage their lives quite as well as those with churches - better, in that they haven't to tithe to endless building funds, missions, and a hierarchy of increasingly parasitic clergy.
Religious spokesmen answer the questions they themselves raise - and give such diverse, changing and contradictory answers that you're pretty much on your own, anyway - the only certainty is that it's all your fault, for touching yourself too much or praying too little.

In the name of [a particular branch of] science [at a particular juncture] any number of practitioners can publish papers on the same subject. These papers ask and/or answer questions raised within the scientific community by any of its practitioners, all over the world, singly or in teams. If there is a contradiction, scientists keep arguing, experimenting, theorizing, calculating, modeling, testing and retesting, until one theory emerges as most nearly proven.... until it's displaced by a better one.
If any of those same questions are asked by laymen, those laymen are welcome to read the papers written by scientists. If other people are not interested in the questions or answers, they can sleep through science class and just buy the resulting inventions, without any need to know why or how they work.
Maybe this second system has less structure - but also less angst.
The royal College of Geology never tortured or burned anyone.

It's not the mean god I have trouble with - it's the people who worship a mean god.
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22-09-2011, 05:22 PM
 
RE: Can religion tell us more than science?
Let's see: science or religion? religion or science?

Which can say more?

Here I have one answer:

In his book the “Pale Blue Dot” Sagan describes the view of Earth, from Voyager1 from a distance of 6.4 billion kilometres, as it was leaving the solar system in 1992.

Carl Sagan writes:

“Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. ….. It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known. --Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot, 1994”

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The Pale Blue Dot we live and quarrel on
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22-09-2011, 09:22 PM
RE: Can religion tell us more than science?
(22-09-2011 05:22 PM)Zatamon Wrote:  The Pale Blue Dot we live and quarrel on

I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE that picture and speech. Astronomy/Astrophysics is fascinating beyond all belief. What an insignificant nothing we are.

Ultimately, my love of Astronomy iis what made me an atheist. Well fairly atheist. I cannot rule out the possibility of a creator, but I can be fairly certain that a creator would not spend all their concern on such a miniscule bit of blue nothing populated by glorified monkeys on the ass end of one of billions of galaxies who spend all their free time humping and blowing each other up.

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