Poll: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
Yes, however religious they are anyone can be considered decent
No, all Christians are not decent, period
It depends on how literally they take their religion
I don't think you can say any answer definitively on this
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Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
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24-04-2014, 03:39 PM
Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
According to this post by Banjo a person cannot be decent and a Christian. I figured that was worth getting deeper into but as I didn't want to derail such a brilliant thread I thought I'd create a new one.

For me, it comes down to how you define a "Christian". Whether you mean someone who identifies as a Christian or someone who strictly follows all teachings is hugely relevant here.

If you mean someone who follows all Biblical teachings I think Banjo has a point. They would be advocating the persecution of homosexuals, the subjugation of women, and the genocide of non-Christians. This, for me, is incompatible with being a "decent person".

However, if you mean someone who simply identifies as a Christian I strongly disagree. Most people who believe in the core parts of Christianity (such as the story of Jesus) and therefore identify as "Christians" wholly reject the Biblical teachings on the treatment of women, homosexuals, and non-Christians. They generally see them as no longer relevant and outdated. It's important to note here that, regardless of the hypocrisy of religious people rejecting these inconvenient things, the point is that they do reject them. I, in turn, reject that someone who believes in equality and living a good (and moral) life and can be excluded from being called "decent" simply because they believe in the story and existence of Jesus.

What does everyone think?

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
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Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
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Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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24-04-2014, 03:44 PM
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
I think this whole thing is just silly.

Either people treat others well or they don't.

Either they do a good job or they don't.

And so on. It doesn't matter what else they do or think.

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24-04-2014, 03:45 PM
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
(24-04-2014 03:39 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  According to this post by Banjo a person cannot be decent and a Christian. I figured that was worth getting deeper into but as I didn't want to derail such a brilliant thread I thought I'd create a new one.

For me, it comes down to how you define a "Christian". Whether you mean someone who identifies as a Christian or someone who strictly follows all teachings is hugely relevant here.

If you mean someone who follows all Biblical teachings I think Banjo has a point. They would be advocating the persecution of homosexuals, the subjugation of women, and the genocide of non-Christians. This, for me, is incompatible with being a "decent person".

However, if you mean someone who simply identifies as a Christian I strongly disagree. Most people who believe in the core parts of Christianity (such as the story of Jesus) and therefore identify as "Christians" wholly reject the Biblical teachings on the treatment of women, homosexuals, and non-Christians. They generally see them as no longer relevant and outdated. It's important to note here that, regardless of the hypocrisy of religious people rejecting these inconvenient things, the point is that they do reject them. I, in turn, reject that someone who believes in equality and living a good (and moral) life and can be excluded from being called "decent" simply because they believe in the story and existence of Jesus.

What does everyone think?

I agree with you, being a christian does not mean you are not a good person. However i do not think one can be a fundamentalist christian and be a decent person.

But then the fundies would decry them as not being true christians.

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24-04-2014, 03:48 PM
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
Uh, options 1, 3, and 4 are kinda equivalent...

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24-04-2014, 03:49 PM (This post was last modified: 24-04-2014 03:54 PM by Hughsie.)
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
(24-04-2014 03:44 PM)Dom Wrote:  I think this whole thing is just silly.

Either people treat others well or they don't.

Either they do a good job or they don't.

And so on. It doesn't matter what else they do or think.

Point is though would the beliefs of a fundamentalist prevent them from treating others well?

And I have a feeling there may well be people here who think all Christians are automatically bad people, I wish to rebut such an awful assertion. I find it just as abhorrent and damaging as Christians who think all atheists are automatically bad people.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
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Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
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Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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24-04-2014, 03:52 PM
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
(24-04-2014 03:48 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Uh, options 1, 3, and 4 are kinda equivalent...

How did you come to that conclusion?

One says that anyone can be considered decent. Even the bigotry of a fundamentalist doesn't necessarily stop them being decent. One says that literally anyone who considers themselves religion cannot be considered decent.

Those two are literally complete opposites.

One says that moderates can be considered decent but fundamentalists who follow the bigotry of the Bible cannot.

That is the middle ground between the first two.

The final one says that you cannot simplify the question enough to have a single definite answer.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
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Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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24-04-2014, 03:54 PM
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
OMG I CAN'T EVEN! this is SO silly, you guys are SO dumb. I mean DAH! Of course a person can be decent and christian, I mean look at Christian Bale, he's a decent actor and he's a christian, and he's SO HOT! OMG! AH! Girl_nails

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24-04-2014, 03:57 PM
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
That's stupid; why don't you just ask, "Can someone be a decent person AND an atheist?" Dodgy retard

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24-04-2014, 03:58 PM
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
(24-04-2014 03:54 PM)nach_in Wrote:  OMG I CAN'T EVEN! this is SO silly, you guys are SO dumb. I mean DAH! Of course a person can be decent and christian, I mean look at Christian Bale, he's a decent actor and he's a christian, and he's SO HOT! OMG! AH! Girl_nails

The question is; could a fundamentalist who believed in the persecution of gays, the subjugation of women, and the even the genocide of non-Christians (all things promoted in the Bible) ever have enough redeeming features to be considered "decent"? Does the fact that they are simply following the beliefs of another (in their eyes the omnipotent creator of the universe and all morality) absolve them of some, or all, of the blame for their actions?

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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24-04-2014, 03:59 PM
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
(24-04-2014 03:52 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(24-04-2014 03:48 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Uh, options 1, 3, and 4 are kinda equivalent...

How did you come to that conclusion?

1. "... [A]nyone can be considered a decent person";
because,
3. "It depends [among others] on how literally they take their religion";
and therefore,
4. "I don't think you can say any answer definitively on this".

(24-04-2014 03:52 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  One says that anyone can be considered decent. Even the bigotry of a fundamentalist doesn't necessarily stop them being decent.

Generally one would consider bigotry to preclude overall decency...

(24-04-2014 03:52 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  One says that literally anyone who considers themselves religion cannot be considered decent.

That's the one I didn't mention, so there's that.
Cool

(24-04-2014 03:52 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  Those two are literally complete opposites.

Yes, which is why 2 is not ambiguous. Unlike 1, 3, and 4.

(24-04-2014 03:52 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  One says that moderates can be considered decent but fundamentalists who follow the bigotry of the Bible cannot.

That is the middle ground between the first two.

The final one says that you cannot simplify the question enough to have a single definite answer.

Indeed. And the reference to "it depends" (3) or "anyone can" (1) are already making explicit that the question is not reducible to a single definite answer.

It's not worded very well.

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