Poll: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
Yes, however religious they are anyone can be considered decent
No, all Christians are not decent, period
It depends on how literally they take their religion
I don't think you can say any answer definitively on this
[Show Results]
 
Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
24-04-2014, 04:03 PM
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
One can never be sure of a Christian's moives. Do investments rate a return?

There is no doubt that many people who do not understand the full nature of Christianity are good people. However, my post was directed at KC on an atheist forum where the true nature of Christianity is exposed.

So, when faced with the true nature of Christianity, with it's reward system, calls to xenophobia and violence and forgiveness of the most base actions, provided one loves Jesus, can a decent person remain Christian?

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-04-2014, 04:07 PM
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
(24-04-2014 03:59 PM)cjlr Wrote:  It's not worded very well.

Tbh, you could probably word something like this better than me, I found wording pretty difficult.

I can give you temporary permissions that'll allow you to edit the options in the poll if you want?

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-04-2014, 04:08 PM
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
(24-04-2014 03:39 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  According to this post by Banjo a person cannot be decent and a Christian. I figured that was worth getting deeper into but as I didn't want to derail such a brilliant thread I thought I'd create a new one.

For me, it comes down to how you define a "Christian". Whether you mean someone who identifies as a Christian or someone who strictly follows all teachings is hugely relevant here.

If you mean someone who follows all Biblical teachings I think Banjo has a point. They would be advocating the persecution of homosexuals, the subjugation of women, and the genocide of non-Christians. This, for me, is incompatible with being a "decent person".

However, if you mean someone who simply identifies as a Christian I strongly disagree. Most people who believe in the core parts of Christianity (such as the story of Jesus) and therefore identify as "Christians" wholly reject the Biblical teachings on the treatment of women, homosexuals, and non-Christians. They generally see them as no longer relevant and outdated. It's important to note here that, regardless of the hypocrisy of religious people rejecting these inconvenient things, the point is that they do reject them. I, in turn, reject that someone who believes in equality and living a good (and moral) life and can be excluded from being called "decent" simply because they believe in the story and existence of Jesus.

What does everyone think?

Of course a person can be religious and a good person.

If they're hell-fearing they'll just have the wrong motivations.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Free Thought's post
24-04-2014, 04:45 PM
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
IMO people are good or bad regardless of their religious opinion, in most cases. Having something like religion to justify your badness just makes it easier to act out on it instead of keeping it to yourself.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-04-2014, 04:59 PM
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
(24-04-2014 03:58 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(24-04-2014 03:54 PM)nach_in Wrote:  OMG I CAN'T EVEN! this is SO silly, you guys are SO dumb. I mean DAH! Of course a person can be decent and christian, I mean look at Christian Bale, he's a decent actor and he's a christian, and he's SO HOT! OMG! AH! Girl_nails

The question is; could a fundamentalist who believed in the persecution of gays, the subjugation of women, and the even the genocide of non-Christians (all things promoted in the Bible) ever have enough redeeming features to be considered "decent"? Does the fact that they are simply following the beliefs of another (in their eyes the omnipotent creator of the universe and all morality) absolve them of some, or all, of the blame for their actions?

The question is absurd, and we've debunked the "atheists have no moral compass" argument over and over again. Well, guess what, the same arguments apply to theists.
If the theist is a dick, then a dick he is. If the theist doesn't hurt anyone, then he's decent. And as always, context will be the ultimate moral arbiter extraordinaire.

That's it. There's no more to it, otherwise we'll inevitably fall in over generalization and plain old bigotry.

[Image: sigvacachica.png]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like nach_in's post
24-04-2014, 05:14 PM
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
Religious dogma can make a person unreasonable, given that they think the bible is the unbending truth it is impossible to try and convince them of anything different.

However, a Christian does not need to follow religious dogma. A Christian does not need to go to church or even read the bible. All they need to do is profess that they believe in and worship Jesus.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-04-2014, 05:23 PM
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
(24-04-2014 05:14 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Religious dogma can make a person unreasonable, given that they think the bible is the unbending truth it is impossible to try and convince them of anything different.

However, a Christian does not need to follow religious dogma. A Christian does not need to go to church or even read the bible. All they need to do is profess that they believe in and worship Jesus.


Is that person a Christian?

Actually understanding the full implications of Christianity, and then remaining a Christian..... Well, I do not believe such a person is decent.

Think on it. It means the following: gays are evil, non Christians are evil, the world does not matter, family members who disbelieve are evil and must be shunned, or, killed. The list is long.

If modern societal laws were removed, just how closely would a true Christian follow the Biblical laws?

I think the truth of this idea is frightening.

How many books did the Left Behind series sell? Millions if I recall.

What would happen to you?

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-04-2014, 05:31 PM (This post was last modified: 24-04-2014 05:40 PM by djhall.)
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
In my godless moral code, a decent or moral person:

Tries to live their life in maximum accordance with their beliefs WHILE EQUALLY trying to maximize the ability for other people to live their own lives in accordance with their own beliefs (or non beliefs). Where the inevitable conflicts arise they try to cooperate to find the most mutually acceptable compromise that maximizes liberty and minimizes imposition for all involved.

For that reason, I went with the "depends on how literally" option. Literal interpretations of most religions require forcing compliance or punishments on other people who don't chose to voluntarily accept them. I have a moral problem with that. From there things get philosophically murky. Do we judge decency by motivations, by beliefs, or by actions? Do we judge them in the context of the person being judged, or the person doing the judging, or a theoretical or assumed third party? If you believe your god tells you homosexuality is a sin and an abomination so you would never do so yourself or encourage others to do so if asked, but you go to the wedding of a gay couple you know who believes differently and are happy for them because they are living their lives according to what they believe as well, while also suspecting you are probably right and they will be tormented eternally as punishment... does that make you tolerant or a bigot or both?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-04-2014, 05:49 PM
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
The statement "you are either a Christian, or a decent person, you cannot be both" is a generalization, and I detest generalizations. We have to judge individuals on a case by case basis. I don't think you can definitively say one thing is true about any group. Hell, you can't even say all women are born with vaginas. The statement sounds to me like saying "all black people like hip hop", or something of that nature.

Personally, I'm surrounded by many Christians who are very good people. They wouldn't be in my life if they weren't. The again, those people don't hold strictly to Christian teachings. I suppose you could say "fundamentalist Christians aren't decent people", but even then you'd be wrong a decent percentage of the time. A lot of fundies are just ignorant of how the world really works, and are too indoctrinated into their religion that they can't even see truth. That, or too afraid to try. I think this is evident enough by the deconversion stories I've read on this site alone. I've seen numerous posts from people who are ashamed of their prior actions as theists. It doesn't mean they were bad people, just misguided.

Where I'm having trouble is those pesky fundamentalists who are so indoctrinated that they can't even see the truth. They can do some really evil things. I think if they do those evil things and see the harm it is doing, but don't care because it is in line with their religion, those are not decent folks. Some probably do evil acts not even noticing the harm they are doing. Just look at republican males in US government trying to control women's reproductive system. I think they truly believe they are doing good, and are trying to do the right thing. I don't think they realize he harm they do. For this reason, I don't necessarily think they aren't decent people, but they certainly are fucktards for not having a brain Dodgy

I hope that the world turns, and things get better. But what I hope most of all is that you understand what I mean when I tell you that, even though I do not know you, and even though I may never meet you, laugh with you, cry with you, or kiss you, I love you. With all my heart, I love you. - V for Vendetta
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Smercury44's post
24-04-2014, 05:52 PM
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
The Bible is the criteria here.

Let us not forget that.

A true Bible following Christian accepts the Bible in it's form.

That is the Christian to whom I refer. Mealy ho hum Christians who know squat about the Bible do not count in my comment.

Remember, the origin of this thread is from a post directed at a Christian who administers an atheist forum. I take it for granted this believer understands his belief system completely. If not, then I don't know what the Hell is going on.

I am fully versed in the Bible. I studied it for years. I expect similar knowledge from an administrator at an atheist website.

That is where I am coming from at least. I hope this makes it more clear.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: