Poll: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
Yes, however religious they are anyone can be considered decent
No, all Christians are not decent, period
It depends on how literally they take their religion
I don't think you can say any answer definitively on this
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Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
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24-04-2014, 05:57 PM
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
(24-04-2014 03:58 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(24-04-2014 03:54 PM)nach_in Wrote:  OMG I CAN'T EVEN! this is SO silly, you guys are SO dumb. I mean DAH! Of course a person can be decent and christian, I mean look at Christian Bale, he's a decent actor and he's a christian, and he's SO HOT! OMG! AH! Girl_nails

The question is; could a fundamentalist who believed in the persecution of gays, the subjugation of women, and the even the genocide of non-Christians (all things promoted in the Bible) ever have enough redeeming features to be considered "decent"? Does the fact that they are simply following the beliefs of another (in their eyes the omnipotent creator of the universe and all morality) absolve them of some, or all, of the blame for their actions?

No. Those beliefs are not decent.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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24-04-2014, 06:02 PM
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
(24-04-2014 05:52 PM)Banjo Wrote:  The Bible is the criteria here.

Let us not forget that.

A true Bible following Christian accepts the Bible in it's form.

That is the Christian to whom I refer. Mealy ho hum Christians who know squat about the Bible do not count in my comment.

What would you say to a bible following Christian who believes the coming of Christ negated the rules of the Old Testament, that predestination determines if you will accept the lord and be saved so there isn't any sense in trying to convert or hate or judge those who don't and treats them with compassion and mercy and tolerance, and who believes that the god which they believe is evidently real may be overly harsh and unfair and a perhaps the truth is a bitch, but it is what it is and can't be changed, and perhaps there will turn out to be a good reason for it all in the end when or if they ever get to see the whole plan? Is that person not a"Christian"? Does that make them a not decent person?
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24-04-2014, 06:08 PM
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
(24-04-2014 05:52 PM)Banjo Wrote:  The Bible is the criteria here.

Let us not forget that.

A true Bible following Christian accepts the Bible in it's form.

That is the Christian to whom I refer. Mealy ho hum Christians who know squat about the Bible do not count in my comment.

Remember, the origin of this thread is from a post directed at a Christian who administers an atheist forum. I take it for granted this believer understands his belief system completely. If not, then I don't know what the Hell is going on.

I am fully versed in the Bible. I studied it for years. I expect similar knowledge from an administrator at an atheist website.

That is where I am coming from at least. I hope this makes it more clear.

See now you're back peddling and moving the goal post.

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24-04-2014, 06:11 PM
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
(24-04-2014 05:57 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(24-04-2014 03:58 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  The question is; could a fundamentalist who believed in the persecution of gays, the subjugation of women, and the even the genocide of non-Christians (all things promoted in the Bible) ever have enough redeeming features to be considered "decent"? Does the fact that they are simply following the beliefs of another (in their eyes the omnipotent creator of the universe and all morality) absolve them of some, or all, of the blame for their actions?

No. Those beliefs are not decent.

At the risk of getting too far off topic, do we need to consider the context of that person's beliefs? Suppose that person was raised in a society where everyone in the community is in agreement in their belief in god, gays are executed as heretics and women are merely property like cows? Does that make them a more decent person than if they were raised in a society where there were conflicting beliefs on the subject of religion and morality and women and gays are treated as equals?
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24-04-2014, 06:12 PM
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
(24-04-2014 05:57 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(24-04-2014 03:58 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  The question is; could a fundamentalist who believed in the persecution of gays, the subjugation of women, and the even the genocide of non-Christians (all things promoted in the Bible) ever have enough redeeming features to be considered "decent"? Does the fact that they are simply following the beliefs of another (in their eyes the omnipotent creator of the universe and all morality) absolve them of some, or all, of the blame for their actions?

No. Those beliefs are not decent.

What are your thoughts on the people who hold those beliefs, Chas? I'd like to think most of us can agree those beliefs are not decent. I'm just a little torn on what I think of the people who hold those beliefs. (As can probably be seen from me being all over the place with my post) just curious to get opinions.

I hope that the world turns, and things get better. But what I hope most of all is that you understand what I mean when I tell you that, even though I do not know you, and even though I may never meet you, laugh with you, cry with you, or kiss you, I love you. With all my heart, I love you. - V for Vendetta
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24-04-2014, 06:15 PM
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
No I am not. My definition of a Christian is what I have claimed it to be.

The Bible is the criteria.

(24-04-2014 06:08 PM)Crulax Wrote:  
(24-04-2014 05:52 PM)Banjo Wrote:  The Bible is the criteria here.

Let us not forget that.

A true Bible following Christian accepts the Bible in it's form.

That is the Christian to whom I refer. Mealy ho hum Christians who know squat about the Bible do not count in my comment.

Remember, the origin of this thread is from a post directed at a Christian who administers an atheist forum. I take it for granted this believer understands his belief system completely. If not, then I don't know what the Hell is going on.

I am fully versed in the Bible. I studied it for years. I expect similar knowledge from an administrator at an atheist website.

That is where I am coming from at least. I hope this makes it more clear.

See now you're back peddling and moving the goal post.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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24-04-2014, 06:32 PM
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
(24-04-2014 06:15 PM)Banjo Wrote:  No I am not. My definition of a Christian is what I have claimed it to be.

The Bible is the criteria.

(24-04-2014 06:08 PM)Crulax Wrote:  See now you're back peddling and moving the goal post.

(24-04-2014 03:26 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Are you a decent person or a Christian KC? One cannot be both.

You're a defining Christians as people who believe everything in the bible is the literal word of god. By doing so you're are moving the goal post as the vast majority of Christians don't believe everything in the bible and therefore don't meet your criteria of being Christians. The people that believe everything in the bible literally are not Christians they are religious zealots and no I don't classify them as being decent people.

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24-04-2014, 06:59 PM
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
(24-04-2014 06:32 PM)Crulax Wrote:  The people that believe everything in the bible literally are not Christians they are religious zealots and no I don't classify them as being decent people.
I don't see why one can't be both a Christian and a religious zealot. Consider

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24-04-2014, 07:15 PM (This post was last modified: 24-04-2014 07:23 PM by Charis.)
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
I honestly believe that truly good people AND their goodness can be basically imprisoned by religious beliefs.

As a fundamentalist, I did not adhere to fundamentalism and its tenets by choice. I did not think I had any choice in the matter... or in pretty much any matter, as I am a woman. I didn't believe this because I wanted to. I believed that it was fact, and there is no arguing with fact, because doing so is retarded and will also bring on the wrath of God who made these rules for very good reason, and who the heck am I to rebel against the God who is perfect and who knows what I do not? To do so would be indecent! To be decent, I must obey! And I very much want to be decent... trust and obey, for there's no other way....

Realization of certain things came later (okay, came very RECENTLY) and so I was basically freed to start developing as a decent person with a different understanding of what is decent and what isn't.

I wanted to be decent the whole time.

Religions re-define "decent."

Sometimes you need to see the person's intent and understand that their understanding can be very darkly tainted. Does the Muslim extremist guy right there WANT to blow himself up? If he's fighting it but still "obeying God/Allah", he's probably a naturally decent guy who has been taken mentally hostage. He doesn't have a choice, practically speaking, if he does not even realize such a choice exists. He is under the impression that he has no choice in the matter, it is set in stone, these are the facts, and the facts say that Allah is God and that Mohammad is his prophet, and command xyz was given and disobedience is not an option. If his decent nature kicks in and says this something is wrong, the "facts" say that this is rebellion and he has an obligation as a decent person to school his emotions and bring his deceitful nature in check.

Total cognitive discord.

Such a person is a hostage. An innately decent person held mentally hostage. But as he is held hostage by dangerous ideology, he becomes a ticking timebomb... something he would never be if he knew. But a timebomb none-the-less.

Such a person needs the truth. The truth would set him free to be decent according to actual decency. In the case of a dangerous radical, we as a society NEED for him to know the truth, and to know it AS truth and not as a lie like his religion would tell him it is.

In his quest to avoid being deceitful and being deceived, both the fundamentalist Muslim and Christian have become the deceived deceivers.
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24-04-2014, 07:19 PM
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
I have just posted a thread in the Atheism section that may help clear things up.

I admit I have been using this forum as a means of staying awake and conscious. I have been in hospital several times since joining. I am actually concerned I may not survive. I have not posted the full details of what is taking place. Just a basic outline.

But that should not matter too much. However, read my signature. It is there for a reason.

I believe people who do not follow the scripture to the letter are NOT Christians. They are false Christians.

To me the term "fundamentalist" is a lie.

One is either a Christian or one is not. One cannot have it both ways. And I believe it is up to us to point that fact out.

I will never shrink from this.

Pastor Nereu Gargalo.
Landover Baptist Church.
Retired.
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I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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