Poll: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
Yes, however religious they are anyone can be considered decent
No, all Christians are not decent, period
It depends on how literally they take their religion
I don't think you can say any answer definitively on this
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Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
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24-04-2014, 07:30 PM
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
(24-04-2014 07:15 PM)Charis Wrote:  I honestly believe that truly good people AND their goodness can be basically imprisoned by religious beliefs.

As a fundamentalist, I did not adhere to fundamentalism and its tenets by choice. I did not think I had any choice in the matter... or in pretty much any matter, as I am a woman. I didn't believe this because I wanted to. I believed that it was fact, and there is no arguing with fact, because doing so is retarded and will also bring on the wrath of God who made these rules for very good reason, and who the heck am I to rebel against the God who is perfect and who knows what I do not? To do so would be indecent! To be decent, I must obey! And I very much want to be decent... trust and obey, for there's no other way....

Realization of certain things came later (okay, came very RECENTLY) and so I was basically freed to start developing as a decent person with a different understanding of what is decent and what isn't.

I wanted to be decent the whole time.

Religions re-define "decent."

Sometimes you need to see the person's intent and understand that their understanding can be very darkly tainted. Does the Muslim extremist guy right there WANT to blow himself up? If he's fighting it but still "obeying God/Allah", he's probably a naturally decent guy who has been taken mentally hostage. He doesn't have a choice, practically speaking, if he does not even realize such a choice exists. He is under the impression that he has no choice in the matter, it is set in stone, these are the facts, and the facts say that Allah is God and that Mohammad is his prophet, and command xyz was given and disobedience is not an option. If his decent nature kicks in and says this something is wrong, the "facts" say that this is rebellion and he has an obligation as a decent person to school his emotions and bring his deceitful nature in check.

Total cognitive discord.

Such a person is a hostage. An innately decent person held mentally hostage. But as he is held hostage by dangerous ideology, he becomes a ticking timebomb... something he would never be if he knew. But a timebomb none-the-less.

Such a person needs the truth. The truth would set him free to be decent according to actual decency. In the case of a dangerous radical, we as a society NEED for him to know the truth, and to know it AS truth and not as a lie like his religion would tell him it is.

In his quest to avoid being deceitful and being deceived, both the fundamentalist Muslim and Christian have become the deceived deceivers.

That is an insanely interesting point. I'm gonna have to muse on this and consider changing my vote. Consider

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
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Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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24-04-2014, 07:34 PM
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
(24-04-2014 03:44 PM)Dom Wrote:  Either people treat others well or they don't.

Either they do a good job or they don't.

And so on. It doesn't matter what else they do or think.

Agreed.


(24-04-2014 03:49 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  Point is though would the beliefs of a fundamentalist prevent them from treating others well?

Fundies certainly seem to be more likely to be scraping the bottom of the barrel when looking for abhorrent Christian beliefs. They are the ones more likely to be bigoted or downright hateful. A lot of the difference between them and moderate Christians is the latter openly rejects some of the more troubling doctrine.


(24-04-2014 03:49 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  And I have a feeling there may well be people here who think all Christians are automatically bad people, I wish to rebut such an awful assertion. I find it just as abhorrent and damaging as Christians who think all atheists are automatically bad people.

Yes, this is a good point. I'd be happier if people stopped being superstitious, but I'll take religous people letting gay people get married over people quoting Leviticus any day, if those are my only two choices.
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24-04-2014, 07:42 PM
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
There have always been countless sects and iterations of Christians. In fact there are and always have been as many variations as there are human brains that define it. No one has EXACTLY the same values and EXACTLY the same nuanced iterations of anything. No one else gets to define what anything means for me, least of all some fundie simple-minded literalist, atheist or Christian. Good people are good people. If they incidentally find some things in common with a community, it might or might not define them. What people mean when they use the word "Christian" means may things. To some it means "sell all your worldly goods, give them to the poor, and come follow me". To some it means "hmmm, how big can I grow my mega-church".
The real question is, "Can someone hot be a good subjugator" ? Tongue

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24-04-2014, 08:20 PM
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
The problem with religions like Christianity is that they are so chock full of contradictions that a loving, non-violent, generous person, and a hateful, abusive control freak can follow that same religion and justify their actions with passages from the Bible. Since Christians believe that the Bible is the word of their infallible god, then by Christian standards there is no separating the good from the bad if they are merely following the words of their god.

Of course, I believe that anybody can be a decent person regardless of their religious affiliation. I know many decent people of different faiths. You know, kind people that help others and don't look down on others for being different. However, when somebody starts using their faith to justify doing wrong, then they can't claim to be a decent person.

I don't know if it's a quote or just a saying, but I've come across it several times before, and it rings very true: "Good people will do good things, and bad people will do bad things, but to get good people to do bad things, that takes religion."

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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24-04-2014, 09:43 PM
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
(24-04-2014 07:15 PM)Charis Wrote:  I honestly believe that truly good people AND their goodness can be basically imprisoned by religious beliefs.

As a fundamentalist, I did not adhere to fundamentalism and its tenets by choice. I did not think I had any choice in the matter...

I wanted to be decent the whole time.

Religions re-define "decent."

Total cognitive discord.

Such a person is a hostage. An innately decent person held mentally hostage.

Charis, you make some very good points (see above) and I am in full agreement.
Your observations hit home.

What helped you break free?

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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24-04-2014, 10:04 PM
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
A big problem is that the so called good people, support the bad people.

No matter how you spin it, touchy feely Christians support the Pat Robertson's of this world.

So how good can they be?

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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24-04-2014, 10:20 PM
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
Well... This is bullshit.
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24-04-2014, 10:24 PM
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
(24-04-2014 06:11 PM)djhall Wrote:  
(24-04-2014 05:57 PM)Chas Wrote:  No. Those beliefs are not decent.

At the risk of getting too far off topic, do we need to consider the context of that person's beliefs? Suppose that person was raised in a society where everyone in the community is in agreement in their belief in god, gays are executed as heretics and women are merely property like cows? Does that make them a more decent person than if they were raised in a society where there were conflicting beliefs on the subject of religion and morality and women and gays are treated as equals?

You mean like an Islamic country? Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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24-04-2014, 10:26 PM
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
(24-04-2014 06:12 PM)Smercury44 Wrote:  
(24-04-2014 05:57 PM)Chas Wrote:  No. Those beliefs are not decent.

What are your thoughts on the people who hold those beliefs, Chas? I'd like to think most of us can agree those beliefs are not decent. I'm just a little torn on what I think of the people who hold those beliefs. (As can probably be seen from me being all over the place with my post) just curious to get opinions.

I do not hold in high regard people who hold those opinions regardless of evidence to the contrary.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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24-04-2014, 10:29 PM
RE: Can someone be a decent person AND a Christian?
Bull shit

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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