Can someone explain...
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04-06-2014, 01:53 AM
RE: Can someone explain...
(03-06-2014 11:24 PM)smileXsmileXsmile Wrote:  So I'm forced to either believe in God or not believe in God?

Why can't I just say "There's no way to know"; AKA 'Lack belief there is no God' and 'Lack belief there is a God or Gods'?


I'm not so sure I understand the difference between "lacks belief in a god" vs. "believes there is no God". Is there a difference? Would you or someone, be so kind as to idiot-proof each square of the first chart so I can understand it?

Well, I wont idiot proof the squares, 'cause then I wouldn't be able to use them.

You can say "There's no way to know", nobody said you can't. You'll still be either an atheist or a theist in the end though; either you will hold a positive belief in god or you will not.

The difference in the two statements from your second paragraph are semantic in nature: the first is a statement on belief, the second a statement of fact.

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04-06-2014, 02:08 AM
RE: Can someone explain...
Why must we be pigeon-holed? I am an individual.

   

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04-06-2014, 02:19 AM
RE: Can someone explain...
I'm not. Unsure




Tongue

Much cheers to all.
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04-06-2014, 02:20 AM
RE: Can someone explain...
It's not something you have to choose.

You either are or are not a Wal-Mart cashier at this moment. If you don't really know if you are one, that's..... slightly confusing, but you can ask yourself a set of questions to find out.

You don't have to choose whether you're a Theist or an Atheist. You just need to find out what you are... no pressure to choose. Smile

Just ask: "Do I lean more or less toward belief in the existence of [insert deity or deities]?" Figuring out what you currently are isn't really a choice so much as it is an analysis of your present state.

A person very dear to me was badly hurt through a misunderstanding and miscommunication. For this, I am sorry, and he knows it. That said, any blaming me for malicious intent is for the birds. I will not wear some scarlet letter, I will not be anybody's whipping girl, and I will not lurk in silence.
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04-06-2014, 02:27 AM
RE: Can someone explain...
(04-06-2014 02:08 AM)Diogenes of Mayberry Wrote:  Why must we be pigeon-holed? I am an individual.

Yes, we are all individuals. We are all the same.

"I'm Brian and so is my wife".

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04-06-2014, 09:15 AM
RE: Can someone explain...
That Venn diagram is just weird. The 2x2 decision matrix makes more sense. Your position can be found with two questions.

Do you believe in any gods? (Y/N) If yes, you're a theist. If no, you're atheist. If you say you're not sure, then you don't believe in any gods and are an atheist. Sure, you might be open to the idea, but you still lack the belief.

Do you think you can be 100% sure of your position? (Y/N) If yes, you're gnostic. If no, you're agnostic. If you're not sure, then you're obviously not 100% sure, so you're agnostic.

Done and done.
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04-06-2014, 06:19 PM
RE: Can someone explain...
Let's say I believe in a god whose name is....(unknown to you)
You also have no idea what powers this god has, nor do you know anything about it.

By default you lack beliefs in gods that you are unaware of.
Also you cannot have a belief in gods that you are unaware of.

But because you already know the specific god in question, then you will fall into an atheist / theist category.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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04-06-2014, 07:43 PM (This post was last modified: 04-06-2014 07:59 PM by rampant.a.i..)
Can someone explain...

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
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21-07-2014, 09:39 AM
RE: Can someone explain...
(03-06-2014 10:56 PM)smileXsmileXsmile Wrote:  Can someone explain the labels of atheism. I know there is more then one type of atheist. I was presented with this nice table.

[Image: yX0vuJpeg.jpg]

but i found a few problems. Lets look at it from a different perspective.

[Image: b945c599-7f37-403f-86ea-1dbbc59fd545.jpg]

As you can see there can be two types of agnostic atheists. Is there a label to differentiate them?

I am one of the two "agnostic atheists". I happen to lack belief that there is a God and lack belief that there is no God. (obviously I'm agnostic, since there is nothing to be 100% certain about). Just curious as to what my technical label would be. Smile

Also, a side note, I found it interesting that the title 'atheist' covers more then the term 'theist' does (from that venn diagram's point of view). I'm guessing this is what leads to misconception that all atheists believe there is no God.

May I suggest the books by David Eller, "Natural Atheism" and "Atheism Advanced".

I've read Dawkins, Hitchens and many other atheist authors...Eller is my favorite.
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23-08-2014, 07:26 PM
RE: Can someone explain...
(21-07-2014 09:39 AM)atheistsince1950 Wrote:  
(03-06-2014 10:56 PM)smileXsmileXsmile Wrote:  Can someone explain the labels of atheism. I know there is more then one type of atheist. I was presented with this nice table.

[Image: yX0vuJpeg.jpg]

but i found a few problems. Lets look at it from a different perspective.

[Image: b945c599-7f37-403f-86ea-1dbbc59fd545.jpg]

As you can see there can be two types of agnostic atheists. Is there a label to differentiate them?

I am one of the two "agnostic atheists". I happen to lack belief that there is a God and lack belief that there is no God. (obviously I'm agnostic, since there is nothing to be 100% certain about). Just curious as to what my technical label would be. Smile

Also, a side note, I found it interesting that the title 'atheist' covers more then the term 'theist' does (from that venn diagram's point of view). I'm guessing this is what leads to misconception that all atheists believe there is no God.

May I suggest the books by David Eller, "Natural Atheism" and "Atheism Advanced".

I've read Dawkins, Hitchens and many other atheist authors...Eller is my favorite.


Just bought those two. about $4.50 each used on amazon I'll get back to you. A buddy of mine gave me the god delusion by richard dawkins. It was absolutely awesome! I highly recommend it. It has it ups and downs in terms of interest but it's all pretty damn good.

"If you cannot explain it simply, you don't understand it enough" -Albert Einstein
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