Can someone explain...
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31-08-2014, 12:11 PM
RE: Can someone explain...
(31-08-2014 12:05 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  Evidently you aren't very intelligent. Sorry for wasting your time. I guess I should have expected that from someone who can't know anything.

Well.... that's 'Dafaq' worthy reply right there. Should I respond with 'Well, you've got a big nose'? Or might there be some gainful discourse to be had by perhaps you explaining how you think it is that some one can know anything?

Much cheers to all
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31-08-2014, 12:53 PM
RE: Can someone explain...
smileXsmileXsmile - You can actually simultaneously identify within a few of those positions be atheist to some gods, agnostic to others, gnostic atheist/agnostic atheist to others etc...
One doesn't have to choose just one. I will give you an example in practice:

EG:

I am now GNOSTIC ATHEIST:
Towards a "personal" God such as Jesus - I know Jesus is not a God from a variety of sources (historical, philosophical, Jewish/Islamic theological, scientific etc) and most importantly contradictions. Contradictions within the God concept lend strength to knowing the God cannot exist.
Generally it is impossible to prove a negative eg a God doesnt exist, however if the concept has contradictions then it is virtually certain it doesn't exist (unless someone is mistaken about the contradictions - but this is unlikely in this case)

I would also be Gnostic atheist to Thor, Odin, Zeus, Apollo, Jupiter.... etc



I am now AGNOSTIC ATHEIST:


There are God concepts which technically I cannot know for certain and would just not believe. Eg apophatic concepts of God (God defined via negative terminology found in Kabbalah Judaism, Advaita Vedanta Hinduism, mahayana buddhism, Sufism, Some Esoteric Christian doctrines etc.)

There are also some pantheistic concepts of God such as in Spinozism which may not be possible to know for certain dont exist. Likewise Deism has its problems and may not be possible to disprove for certain.
These are epistemological limitations for what we can know - and there is no epistemological way to know for certain that some concepts of God are definitely false. THAT DOES NOT MEAN ONE BELIEVES IN THEM - it just means its impossible to know for certain
.
Used to be AGNOSTIC THEIST

This is generally a somewhat skeptical stance even when someone believes that a God is likely. I went through this phase with a baysian like statistical probability that a God might be likely.
I can still resonate with this position for some types of God concept which are impersonal NeoPlatonistic PanEntheistic versions of God - however my stance on this has shifted towards Agnostic Atheist. Without positive evidence having a belief is somewhat empty. Generally the more one moves towards naturalistic physicalistic philosophies the more the trend is towards agnostic atheism followed by gnostic atheism. Agnostic theism is popular for those who dont have a religious orthodoxy but not satisfied with "naturalism" as a complete philosophical system (eg Platonists, Spinosizm, Pantheism etc)


Used to be mostly GNOSTIC THEIST

I once believed in the "evidence of scripture" such as the Torah from a Jewish context. This means I thought I have evidence for One true God and all other god(s) concepts were distortions or falsehoods - ranging from distorted revelation (Quran), distorted God concept (trinitarian Christianity), outright false imaginations (idol worshiping) Scriptures were the primary foundation and "theology" would back this up as evidence for God in general eg intelligent design, cosmological + teleological arguments, moral arguments, prophecy fulfilled, some personal experiences etc...

Generally it is a sliding scale from Gnostic theist to Gnostic atheist - but some combinations can exist simultaneously.
Eg
All monotheist Gnostic Theists are Gnostic atheists to other gods.
Some Gnostic Atheists are also Agnostic atheists.
Some Agnostic theists are also Agnostic atheists depending on the God concept.

...I think you get the idea.

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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01-09-2014, 10:43 PM (This post was last modified: 01-09-2014 10:57 PM by smileXsmileXsmile.)
RE: Can someone explain...
(31-08-2014 09:27 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(23-08-2014 07:56 PM)Sam Wrote:  My position is simple... I don't believe in God.

Yes you do.

Seriously diddo? Trolling and fragmenting my thread? Start your own thread!!! ...and take it at this: we don't

"If you cannot explain it simply, you don't understand it enough" -Albert Einstein
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01-09-2014, 11:20 PM (This post was last modified: 02-09-2014 12:23 PM by Kaepora Gaebora.)
RE: Can someone explain...
Gnostic or agnostic is a claim of knowledge. Theism or atheism is a claim of belief (or lack thereof) .

The second graph seems to think agnosticism is between atheism or theism. This sort of stuff isn't true and I've heard it so many times.
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02-09-2014, 10:40 AM
RE: Can someone explain...
(01-09-2014 10:43 PM)smileXsmileXsmile Wrote:  
(31-08-2014 09:27 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  Yes you do.

Seriously diddo? Trolling and fragmenting my thread? Start your own thread!!! ...and take it at this: we don't

Everyone believes in God.

Truth seeker.
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02-09-2014, 10:42 AM
RE: Can someone explain...
(02-09-2014 10:40 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(01-09-2014 10:43 PM)smileXsmileXsmile Wrote:  Seriously diddo? Trolling and fragmenting my thread? Start your own thread!!! ...and take it at this: we don't

Everyone believes in God.


Yes thank you Sye worshiper and go play in your fantasy world where you know how other peoples minds work without any study of them, and let people talk to people with legitimate confusions.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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02-09-2014, 10:45 AM
RE: Can someone explain...
(02-09-2014 10:40 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  Everyone believes in God.

Technically (Some might even say pedantically) that would be a 'Yes' to that statement. Assuming one were to be using the vernacular in the same way that, once I've said "Purple penis hippo" other people can not un-think the term having read and put though to the meaning of the word(s).

Believing in something does not, however, make such a thing real.

So... there is that.

Very much cheers to all.
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02-09-2014, 10:51 AM
RE: Can someone explain...
(02-09-2014 10:42 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(02-09-2014 10:40 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  Everyone believes in God.


Yes thank you Sye worshiper and go play in your fantasy world where you know how other peoples minds work without any study of them, and let people talk to people with legitimate confusions.

Fantasy world? Generally fantasies are happy. Accepting the truth that God exists is not happy.

Truth seeker.
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02-09-2014, 11:07 AM
RE: Can someone explain...
(02-09-2014 10:51 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(02-09-2014 10:42 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Yes thank you Sye worshiper and go play in your fantasy world where you know how other peoples minds work without any study of them, and let people talk to people with legitimate confusions.

Fantasy world? Generally fantasies are happy. Accepting the truth that God exists is not happy.


Fantasies are in no way connected to happiness, that's a pointless claim anyway, who cares what they generally are?

Truth that God exists also is not in anyway related to whether of not people "believe" in god. You really should stick to actual sye ramblings. Or why not go back to your thread where you stopped responding to any arguments against your ideas about how a atheism is hypocritical.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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