Can someone truly be an agnostic/undecided?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
16-04-2011, 06:36 AM
 
RE: Can someone truly be an agnostic/undecided?
(16-04-2011 12:56 AM)Ghost Wrote:  I self-define as an Agnostic because I see the God question as unanswerable both positively and negatively. For me, a true Agnostic neither believes in God's existence nor in God's non-existence. However that manifests accounts for the variation within Agnosticism, ie, don't care, don't wanna risk it, no thanks I gave at the office, it's illogical to pick, can't know, haven't decided, exists and doesn't exist simultaneously, or I just don't know man, OK, so just stop with all the pressure! Basically, believe in the demonstrable, and make no assumptions one way or the other about the undemonstrated and the indemonstrable.

Basically This
Quote this message in a reply
16-04-2011, 07:47 AM
RE: Can someone truly be an agnostic/undecided?
http://thethinkingatheist.com/forum/Thre...an-Atheist

17 pages worth of explanation/argument on this. Thought it might be a good read for those who are going to get involved in this thread, but weren't around when the above link went on.

So many cats, so few good recipes.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-04-2011, 11:37 AM
RE: Can someone truly be an agnostic/undecided?
Ah poosnickles. I figured someone had done this post already, but didn't want to search for "agnostic" on an atheist forum and get bombarded with pages of results.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-04-2011, 03:05 PM
RE: Can someone truly be an agnostic/undecided?
Hey, Buddy.

Don't say that Vizzini. My thread was based on a very specific interpretation of Agnosticism. Your thread asked some very good questions and invited a much broader conversation. I welcome it. There's been some great responses so far.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-04-2011, 05:54 PM
 
RE: Can someone truly be an agnostic/undecided?
Think it is the perspective you should use to see what you are. Compared to theistic gods I would discribe myself as atheist. To the question of is there a god beyond theism I am completely undecided yet. So Agnostic Atheist or just agnostic. But for discussing current religion I definitly group myself into the atheist box.
Quote this message in a reply
17-04-2011, 03:27 PM
RE: Can someone truly be an agnostic/undecided?
I think some people also tend to use the term agnostic when they are starting to have major doubts about their religion/god(s) but have not yet decided whether or not they believe. I think it is perfectly valid for somebody who is still searching for information to call themselves an agnostic until they can come up with a definition for themselves that does not cause cognitive dissonance. Some people may never be able to come up with enough evidence to decide either way. Which is perfectly fine.

I think basically, whatever one wants to call oneself, go for it. Definitions are never static because language is always changing and adapting to fit new circumstances. Remember, atheist used to just mean "you don't believe in whatever god happens to be believed in by the society you currently live in"; it didn't always mean "lack of believe in gods". Similarly, agnosticism, regardless of its original or dictionary definition, is going to mean what society understands it to mean.

"Remember, my friend, that knowledge is stronger than memory, and we should not trust the weaker." - Dr. Van Helsing, Dracula
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-04-2011, 06:21 PM
RE: Can someone truly be an agnostic/undecided?
Hey, SecularStudent.

Quote:I think some people also tend to use the term agnostic when they are starting to have major doubts about their religion/god(s) but have not yet decided whether or not they believe. I think it is perfectly valid for somebody who is still searching for information to call themselves an agnostic until they can come up with a definition for themselves that does not cause cognitive dissonance. Some people may never be able to come up with enough evidence to decide either way. Which is perfectly fine.

I think there's a lot of truth in that. In Quebec, we have post-secondary level called CEGEP (see-jep) that falls between high school and university. It's basically a buffer where students begin to specialise their education, but not as tightly as one does in university and where they can begin to slowly acclimate to the more self-regulated pace and higher word load of university. There's 3 year technical programs that are very intense and designed to fast-track you into the workforce, and then there's the 2 year pre-university programs. Basically there's social science, creative arts, pure and applied science (my memory is swiss cheezy about it and I think some of the programs changed). The big joke in high school is that if you don't know what you want to do, you do "social". Social sciences is very broad and encompasses history, psychology, classics, geography, economics and a bunch of other subjects (there’s a sub-category called commerce). If you complete it, you can basically get into any BA program you want, so as long as you don't fuck up, you can really use it to defer the choice of what you want to focus on until university. So for some, social is like a way station.

That being said, for others it's a destination. I did social science because I wanted to do social science. That was my passion. I wasn't hangin out, I wasn't waiting for something else to happen, I was exploring those subjects, in that program, because that's what I wanted to do.

So I agree that some people who are just confused or on their way to Atheism use Agnosticism as a way station. But other's make a very conscious choice to be Agnostics and to remain Agnostics.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-04-2011, 11:43 PM (This post was last modified: 18-04-2011 01:03 PM by Observer.)
RE: Can someone truly be an agnostic/undecided?
When I am in a room and my wife leaves to the next room, I can safely assume that she is there. After a while however, She might left that room as well. In that case, I am agnostic on her whereabouts but can still have a reasonable assumption that she is in the room next to me.

So I guess you can.

We are agnostic about lots of things that happen in the objective world. We don't actually know they happen, but be can safely assume them.

No? Confused

Observer

Agnostic atheist
Secular humanist
Emotional rationalist
Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
18-04-2011, 06:45 AM
RE: Can someone truly be an agnostic/undecided?
Good one, observer. So to put that back into context, someone can assume there is a God (because they "feel it" or some anecdotal reason) but they realize there's not enough proof so they just have to stick with the assumption, rather than committing to the full blown "I believe there is a God" burden of Theism. I refuse to wrongly call these people agnostics though, so I will call them Assumists.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
18-04-2011, 12:58 PM
RE: Can someone truly be an agnostic/undecided?
(18-04-2011 06:45 AM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  I refuse to wrongly call these people agnostics though, so I will call them Assumists.
Fine with me, as long as you allow them to call you a "amnotbuyingitist." Big Grin

Why would that make a difference to you?

Observer

Agnostic atheist
Secular humanist
Emotional rationalist
Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: