Can someone truly be an agnostic/undecided?
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16-05-2016, 01:31 PM
RE: Can someone truly be an agnostic/undecided?
(16-05-2016 08:16 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  Not that I want to defend theists in any way, but there are things outside your 5 senses. Dark matter. I am pretty sure science has or at least will if not already prove that dark matter exists. I don't have a sense that is capable of detecting it. There may be some form of life that can see it. I mean, just on our planet alone we have birds that can see things we can't. I know my macaw can see into the IR spectrum. There are designs on their feathers that humans can't see without the aid of technology, yet the birds are able to see it.

I agree with you very much on this.

It is my feeling that we don't know the half of it - yet. We are extremely limited in what we can perceive or measure.

Gods are though extremely unlikely.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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17-05-2016, 05:56 AM
RE: Can someone truly be an agnostic/undecided?
It's all labels that don't really matter. Why do I need to label my self in relation to what a theist believes?

The best way to explain the concept to someone who wants to mince words is to bring up leprechauns. Now, if we define them as sufficiently magical and elusive, I cannot prove they don't exist. The question is: should I have any reason to believe they exist? It's a nonfalsifiable notion with no compelling supporting evidence. Done and done. I'll wait for the leprechaunists to prove the existence of leprechauns. I don't need to lift a finger on this, and I don't see why I need to give myself some "aleprechaunist" label.
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17-05-2016, 06:08 AM
RE: Can someone truly be an agnostic/undecided?
(17-05-2016 05:56 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  It's all labels that don't really matter. Why do I need to label my self in relation to what a theist believes?

The best way to explain the concept to someone who wants to mince words is to bring up leprechauns. Now, if we define them as sufficiently magical and elusive, I cannot prove they don't exist. The question is: should I have any reason to believe they exist? It's a nonfalsifiable notion with no compelling supporting evidence. Done and done. I'll wait for the leprechaunists to prove the existence of leprechauns. I don't need to lift a finger on this, and I don't see why I need to give myself some "aleprechaunist" label.

The reason to label yourself is to group together to get what we want out of the government. To be represented. The religious do this extremely well. That is why we are winning very slowly. If we group together, we can draq the religious into the 21st century instead of leaving them in the late 19th century where they want to hang out.
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17-05-2016, 06:16 AM
RE: Can someone truly be an agnostic/undecided?
(16-05-2016 07:55 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Agnosticism is a way to dodge answering a question.

If someone asked "Do you believe someone will win the lottery next Friday ?"

Agnostic replies - "I don't know"

He or she doesn't want to provide an answer on the question of belief. Saying I don't know is just a dodge.

In this day & age, there can be social & workplace repercussions for answering the question on belief.

A safe response is to simply say "I don't know"

Bullshit. "I don't know" is an honest answer when one lacks knowledge, as in the lottery outcome.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-05-2016, 11:10 AM
RE: Can someone truly be an agnostic/undecided?
(17-05-2016 06:16 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-05-2016 07:55 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Agnosticism is a way to dodge answering a question.

If someone asked "Do you believe someone will win the lottery next Friday ?"

Agnostic replies - "I don't know"

He or she doesn't want to provide an answer on the question of belief. Saying I don't know is just a dodge.

In this day & age, there can be social & workplace repercussions for answering the question on belief.

A safe response is to simply say "I don't know"

Bullshit. "I don't know" is an honest answer when one lacks knowledge, as in the lottery outcome.

If you lack knowledge, then you can also lack belief or hold a belief.

If you don't have a belief on a certain topic, you automatically lack a belief.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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17-05-2016, 11:13 AM
RE: Can someone truly be an agnostic/undecided?
(17-05-2016 11:10 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  
(17-05-2016 06:16 AM)Chas Wrote:  Bullshit. "I don't know" is an honest answer when one lacks knowledge, as in the lottery outcome.

If you lack knowledge, then you can also lack belief or hold a belief.

So what?

'Know' and 'believe' are not the same thing.

Quote:If you don't have a belief on a certain topic, you automatically lack a belief.

So what?

'Know' and 'believe' are not the same thing.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-05-2016, 05:12 PM
RE: Can someone truly be an agnostic/undecided?
(17-05-2016 11:13 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(17-05-2016 11:10 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  If you lack knowledge, then you can also lack belief or hold a belief.

So what?

'Know' and 'believe' are not the same thing.

Quote:If you don't have a belief on a certain topic, you automatically lack a belief.

So what?

'Know' and 'believe' are not the same thing.

I know they aren't the same thing.
Why did you say "bullshit" when I pointed out that they weren't the same thing ?

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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17-05-2016, 05:32 PM
RE: Can someone truly be an agnostic/undecided?
I find it hard to conceptualize being purely agnostic on a topic so pervasive as the existence of a deity. That is to not lean one way or the other (atheism vs theism). I think philosophically it is possible...but I can't understand the mind that doesn't lean. I get gnostic atheist/agnostic atheist/gnostic theist/agnostic theist. But a pure agnostic? Does not compute (for me).

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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17-05-2016, 06:23 PM
RE: Can someone truly be an agnostic/undecided?
It is fairly strange if you ask someone, "Do you believe there is a large invisible, intangible, elephant in my car ?

And their response is " I don't know"

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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18-05-2016, 06:34 AM
RE: Can someone truly be an agnostic/undecided?
(17-05-2016 05:32 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  I find it hard to conceptualize being purely agnostic on a topic so pervasive as the existence of a deity. That is to not lean one way or the other (atheism vs theism). I think philosophically it is possible...but I can't understand the mind that doesn't lean. I get gnostic atheist/agnostic atheist/gnostic theist/agnostic theist. But a pure agnostic? Does not compute (for me).

I am both a true agnostic and I lean toward there is no god. I am an atheist. You can't disprove god, so in order to be fair you must be agnostic about it. I live as if there is not a god, however it is possible although very unlikely. So, I am both atheist and a true agnostic. If you are agnostic about it and don't go to church then you are probably an atheist. If you are agnostic that goes to church then you are some type of theist, but to be fair you must admit that it is possible you are wrong. The ones that claim to be complete theist are usually bat shit crazy. You know, the ones that claim that they talk to god and god talks to them.
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