Can someone truly be an agnostic/undecided?
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18-05-2016, 07:30 AM
RE: Can someone truly be an agnostic/undecided?
(15-04-2011 09:26 PM)Efrx86 Wrote:  I don't think belief in god is such a black-and-white topic. Dawkins proposed a spectrum of a person's opinion on the probability of the existence of god:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrum_of...robability

One could say there are different types of agnosticism too. There's the hard-line type that refuses to yield to any reasoning "we as humans will never be able to answer the question of God's existence", and then there are those who simply reserve judgment until they believe there is valid evidence "right now I haven't seen anything so far that proves or disproves God's existence".

I, for example, don't have a stance on contemporary global warming. I'm not sure if it's man-made, if it's a naturally occurring phenomenon of even if it's happening at all. Perhaps it's because I haven't taken much interest in the subject, which may be a little irresponsible from my part especially when taking into account the humongous amount of tax money that many countries spend to fight it. Regardless, if I'm in the middle of a conversation and the topic of global warming pops up, I simply state that I honestly don't have a stance on global warming, because I don't know enough about the subject. Perhaps agnostics are like this, they simply prefer not to talk about the subject or take sides because... they seriously haven't taken a side.

I know that to atheists like you and me belief in god is akin to belief in alien souls inhabiting our bodies or in a flying spaghetti monster, but considering that the god hypothesis is something that gets shoved into most of our throats from an early age as a universal truth, lots of people have no choice but to ponder about it. Therefore I avoid patronizing people who take an agnostic approach to the existence of a higher power. I don't believe there is anything wrong about reserving judgment if there's no hard evidence debunking one side or the other. Personally, I didn't jump into the atheist bandwagon immediately. I was an agnostic for about a year, although not of the hard-line type. I've met people with all types of opinions on god's existence, and when someone is a hard-line agnostic that prefers not to talk about religion, I simply say "that's cool" and we switch topics, like I would with a hard-line theist.

If agnostics were like apatheists, who don't care at all about the existence of a god, then you could say they're technically atheists. But here's the catch: they DO care. They're not nonchalant about it. The unyielding agnostics will either avoid debate altogether or stand by their belief that we don't have an answer for such a complicated question.

But of course, there are those who do lean toward atheism and prefer to keep calling themselves agnostic and defending hard-line agnostic points of view because of the stigma behind the word "atheist". So what? Closet atheists are everywhere. Many of them also claim to fully believe in God, or just pretend leaning toward the existence of one. They will come out whenever, and if ever, they decide to do so. But I don't find that there is no such thing as being truly agnostic. It can happen just as belief in alien souls inhabiting our bodies happens, despite how ridiculous it may seem.

I myself would believe if I say God Jr Rappelling down out of the sky with that sword in His mouth to kill 1/3 of mankind, but that is about what it wold take for me to believe. By then it would presumably be too late and i'd be on his list of those to smte. SO that is where I stand.
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18-05-2016, 07:48 AM
RE: Can someone truly be an agnostic/undecided?
All right TTA. You disappoint.

No necro pic?

/sigh

I guess I'll do it.

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18-05-2016, 07:53 AM
RE: Can someone truly be an agnostic/undecided?
(18-05-2016 07:48 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  All right TTA. You disappoint.

No necro pic?

/sigh

I guess I'll do it.

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You are part of TTA too. So TTA does not disappoint.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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18-05-2016, 08:23 AM
RE: Can someone truly be an agnostic/undecided?
double post.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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18-05-2016, 08:25 AM
RE: Can someone truly be an agnostic/undecided?
(18-05-2016 06:34 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(17-05-2016 05:32 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  I find it hard to conceptualize being purely agnostic on a topic so pervasive as the existence of a deity. That is to not lean one way or the other (atheism vs theism). I think philosophically it is possible...but I can't understand the mind that doesn't lean. I get gnostic atheist/agnostic atheist/gnostic theist/agnostic theist. But a pure agnostic? Does not compute (for me).

I am both a true agnostic and I lean toward there is no god. I am an atheist. You can't disprove god, so in order to be fair you must be agnostic about it. I live as if there is not a god, however it is possible although very unlikely. So, I am both atheist and a true agnostic. If you are agnostic about it and don't go to church then you are probably an atheist. If you are agnostic that goes to church then you are some type of theist, but to be fair you must admit that it is possible you are wrong. The ones that claim to be complete theist are usually bat shit crazy. You know, the ones that claim that they talk to god and god talks to them.
Yeah I understand. I didn't want to go too far into explanations. But pairing agnostic/gnostic with atheism/theism makes total sense. As a way to describe knowledge (or obtainable knowledge) vs belief. But what I was trying to say is, somebody who claims to be purely agnostic, but refuses to say what they believe. In essence somebody who claims something along the lines of, "Given my lack of knowledge I believe it is equally likely (or at least close enough to be unable to form an opinion) that there is a god or that there is no god." That's what I don't get.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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19-05-2016, 09:13 AM
RE: Can someone truly be an agnostic/undecided?
(17-05-2016 05:12 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  
(17-05-2016 11:13 AM)Chas Wrote:  So what?

'Know' and 'believe' are not the same thing.


So what?

'Know' and 'believe' are not the same thing.

I know they aren't the same thing.
Why did you say "bullshit" when I pointed out that they weren't the same thing ?

I'm sorry I wasn't clear. You calling it a dodge is bullshit.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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