Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
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03-03-2017, 11:59 PM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(03-03-2017 07:16 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I think our buddy Harold is learning that the Peer Review process can be pretty rough.

Just look at all those people skeptically reviewing your methods to ensure there's no personal bias and/or poor methodology at work.

Welcome to science.

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04-03-2017, 04:00 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(01-03-2017 07:21 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  Can the....

No.

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04-03-2017, 04:08 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(03-03-2017 11:12 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  
(03-03-2017 09:37 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  How idiotic.
You think Paul complaining about his sight was spiritual blindness, and you know MORE than he did ? You literally could make up ANYTHING about anything.

What's "scientific" about your dot connecting ?
Evidence of Paul's hypocrisy:

Act 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
Act 15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.


Act 16:1 Then came he to Derbe and Lystra: and, behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timotheus, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and believed; but his father was a Greek: 2 Which was well reported of by the brethren that were at Lystra and Iconium. 3 Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek.

Paul disputed with others that circumcision wasn't necessary, then turned around and circumcised Timothy so that the Jews would accept him. That's the definition of hypocrisy which Jesus teaches here:

Act 23:6 But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.

Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. 4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

In obedience to Jesus, one should do as Paul says and not circumcise men rather than as he did.

This shows by example of how events recorded in the Bible can edify us to what Jesus is saying.

Did you know that Christians are all Pharisees by definition?

Act 23:8 For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both.

The majority, if not all, Christians express belief in the resurrection, angels, and Spirit of God.

Therefore, all who share what they believe should be scrutinized. Even my own offerings made here.

Too bad for you, Christians are not "all Pharisees by definition".
Did you forget your meds ?

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04-03-2017, 06:33 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(03-03-2017 09:05 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  Actually, it only takes becoming as a child.

When a child desires to know about something, s/he looks to the authoritative figure in their lives. They come with no presumptions or preconceived conceptions. Only the desire to learn.

As far as the circular thinking, what I post is what I have learned in this childlike manner and have been convicted by the figure who knows.

That explains a lot. Children are very susceptible to accepting magical answers and fallacious reasoning because they haven't developed critical thinking skills. Perhaps if you tried thinking like an adult you will see that these "answers" you have are not answers at all.

The whole anti-reason drive promoted by religion and so clearly elucidated by you is one of the biggest factors in making religion such a detriment to society. Don't think about it, just accept what you are told by the big authority figure and be a good boy. You play at "reasoning" but your conclusions are circumscribed by what the bible tells you so it's all smoke and mirrors.

You come across as being fairly intelligent and it's really sad to see the potential wasted like that.

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04-03-2017, 06:45 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(04-03-2017 06:33 AM)unfogged Wrote:  That explains a lot. Children are very susceptible to accepting magical answers and fallacious reasoning because they haven't developed critical thinking skills. Perhaps if you tried thinking like an adult you will see that these "answers" you have are not answers at all.

I guess it takes a few additional factors. Such as school not doing it's job in science class. In my case I gradually came to the realization that the whole bible story doesn't add up, unless god graduated from amoeba god to dino god to finally climb the ladder being human god.

It also helped that my father took me to the museum of natural history at a very young age, pointing out that these enormous creatures lived millions of years ago.
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04-03-2017, 06:49 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
Perhaps it would be better to view the Bible as a literary mystery, which it is, and the study of it is to find out the who, what, where, why, and how.

A good mystery always has the clues to which the answers to these questions are within the context of the book.

It would be aggravating to read a mystery novel and in the end, the author revealing of the mystery is not consistent with what had been written.
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04-03-2017, 06:58 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(04-03-2017 06:49 AM)hecrow55 Wrote:  Perhaps it would be better to view the Bible as a literary mystery, which it is, and the study of it is to find out the who, what, where, why, and how.

Historians and archaologists are doing exactly that. The questions are a little different though: Where, when, who, why.

How doesn't feature into it, since even if parts of the bible rely on true events, the supernatural stories aren't subjects of any scientific approach. So far, the bible doesn't feature any more truths than Homer's Ilias. Yes, the Trojan war happened. But even you would be sceptical about Apollo or Athena making a personal appearance to take sides. You would also question the existence of Achill or Hector, and rightly so.

The bible is a typical example of tales making the rounds at the campfires of Caravan routes. Someone at some point decided to pen them down. That it has been adapted in large parts of the Western world, doesn't answer anything in itself either. Christianity hasn't been around for as long as the Egyptian believes existed. Same goes for the different shades of Buddism of course.

It's complicated and certainly not reliant on bible proves bible.
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04-03-2017, 06:59 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(04-03-2017 06:33 AM)unfogged Wrote:  That explains a lot. Children are very susceptible to accepting magical answers and fallacious reasoning because they haven't developed critical thinking skills. Perhaps if you tried thinking like an adult you will see that these "answers" you have are not answers at all.

For the most part, a child sees its strongest parental figure as the authoritative person on any subject. But once anything this figure teaches is revealed to be false to the child, the veil of that figure being perfect is forever removed.

That is why I ask if anything attributed to Jesus can be proven to be a lie (falsified)? As of yet, I have found or have been presented with anything that proves His words to be a lie. Thus, the aurora of perfection remains and will remain until there is sufficient evidence, not opinion, to the contrary.
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04-03-2017, 07:02 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(04-03-2017 06:49 AM)hecrow55 Wrote:  Perhaps it would be better to view the Bible as a literary mystery, which it is, and the study of it is to find out the who, what, where, why, and how.

A good mystery always has the clues to which the answers to these questions are within the context of the book.

It would be aggravating to read a mystery novel and in the end, the author revealing of the mystery is not consistent with what had been written.

That's fine, but what reason do you have to believe that it applies to reality? That's the link you have not provided. If it does pertain to reality then couching it as a mystery novel directly contradicts the goal of having everybody understand.

People argue about internal consistencies and meaning for Star Trek and Star Wars and Lord of the Rings and Superman and Spiderman and My Little Pony and thousands of other works. Your "investigation" of the bible is just more of the same until you can demonstrate that it isn't just a story (and establishing some referents is just the start -- Abraham Lincoln existed but "Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter" didn't). As far as I can tell, the bible is primarily a work of fan fiction.

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04-03-2017, 07:12 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(04-03-2017 06:59 AM)hecrow55 Wrote:  For the most part, a child sees its strongest parental figure as the authoritative person on any subject. But once anything this figure teaches is revealed to be false to the child, the veil of that figure being perfect is forever removed.

That is why I ask if anything attributed to Jesus can be proven to be a lie (falsified)? As of yet, I have found or have been presented with anything that proves His words to be a lie. Thus, the aurora of perfection remains and will remain until there is sufficient evidence, not opinion, to the contrary.

What did he say that is demonstrably true? There are a lot of vague aphorisms about how to behave but they are not unique or original. There's plenty of bad advice (e.g. take no thought of tomorrow don't wash your hands), and unverifiable claims of miracles. Some of it can be explained through creative interpretation so as not to be "wrong" but I know of nothing that can be shown to be true that isn't mundane. Jesus's record is far from perfect and offers nothing that implies divinity.

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