Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
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04-03-2017, 07:28 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(03-03-2017 04:47 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  Actually it was James the First that ordered the translation.

I am aware of that. However the Anglican church and it's theological differences originated with Henry VIII.

Do you honestly think that your response is a valid refutation? Your bible was modified to fit the political and theological desires of the translators. Just like all the rest.

(03-03-2017 04:47 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  By the way, I don't study it as it is written, but seek that which is hidden.
I also check the Hebrew and Greek words for their meanings

How thorough of you. No Aramaic?

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04-03-2017, 07:33 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(03-03-2017 06:27 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  I've never been a Catholic. I follow only Christ. He is the Magisterium with whom I check. He is the only one qualified to teach scripture.

Since that person has been dead for 2,000+ years (if they existed at all), then you are in a difficult position, aren't you?

Your christ never wrote anything down. His followers did.

His followers only started writing things down decades after the events happened.

They only started writing things down because the promised resurrection didn't happen and they needed to establish orthodoxy and thus their power base.

So much for scholarship. Drinking Beverage

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Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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04-03-2017, 07:45 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(04-03-2017 06:59 AM)hecrow55 Wrote:  That is why I ask if anything attributed to Jesus can be proven to be a lie (falsified)? As of yet, I have found or have been presented with anything that proves His words to be a lie.

First, it is almost impossible to prove a negative.

Second, I repeat my earlier question which you ignored:

(02-03-2017 06:46 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(01-03-2017 07:21 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  Test: Can any of the sayings of Jesus be proved to be a lie?

Prove that you are not a thief. (props to JT Eberhard.)

Your god is not real.
FBH

(04-03-2017 06:59 AM)hecrow55 Wrote:  Thus, the aurora of perfection remains and will remain until there is sufficient evidence, not opinion, to the contrary.

That aurora is not perfection. It's the aroma of bullshit.

If you believe everything until proven wrong then:

Zeus is real.
Odin is real.
Unicorns, leprechauns and fairies are real.
David Khoresh was the son of god.

You cannot hold contradictory beliefs as true until proven wrong.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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04-03-2017, 07:57 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(03-03-2017 06:27 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  I've never been a Catholic. I follow only Christ. He is the Magisterium with whom I check. He is the only one qualified to teach scripture.

Translation: I have a special name and persona for my own conscience in order to give it undeserved respect and faux legitimacy.

Checking in with a 2000+ years long dead Jewish carpenter does nothing to make your decisions any more accurate than anyone else. Plus, you're not the only one supposedly communing with that same long dead carpenter for advice; and yet plenty of them claim that the very same carpenter gave them an answer that completely contradicts yours.

So either you're both full of shit, hiding your own Ego with the same facade. Or that carpenter is dicking you both around by giving contradictory answers. Pick one.

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04-03-2017, 08:14 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
Comparative Study of Moses and Jesus

Joh 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

Jesus makes the claim that something that is credited to have been written by Moses is about Him. There is a significant passage that speaks directly to this claim.

Deu 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; 16 According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. 17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. 18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

Question: Is Jesus this Promised Prophet?

General analysist of the available evidence:

There are 4 books that contain the life and ministry of each man.
Moses: Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy
Jesus: Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John

In the 1st and 3rd books on Moses there are genealogies while the 2nd and 4th books have none.
The 1st and 3rd books on Jesus also have genealogies, while the 2nd and 4th books contain none.

The first three books of Moses are similar in content pertaining to giving of the law with notably differences in what is to be offered for sacrifice.
The first three books on Jesus are also similar in contents with some differences in the recorded teaching which were His offerings.

The 4th book on Moses is significantly different than the other three. It is also the only book written in 1st person.
Self-similarly, the 4th book on Jesus is also quite different from the first three. In it, the Greek word for I that is only used to designate emphatic meaning is predominate in Jesus’ sayings, while it is not used in the other three.

In the 1st book on Moses, a ruler of the land orders the killing of children of the Israelites.
Self-similar, in the 1st book on Jesus, a ruler orders the killing of the children of the Israelites in the town of Bethlehem.

In the story in Exodus, Moses is taken care of by his mother till he is weaned (approximately 2 years), then sent to live with an Egyptian princess.
In the birth story of Matthew, wise men come seeking the child born to be King after seeing a star 2 years earlier.
Jesus is taken to Egypt at that time.

In Exodus, the Israelites travel for 3 months, then camp at base of a mountain. It is on this mountain that it written that God descended upon and 1st spoke to the people.
Jesus delivers His 1st oration in Matthew on top of a mountain.

In Deuteronomy, Moses dies and is buried, but there is more written after this event.
In John it is recorded that the disciple who testified of these things revealing that it is not the disciple who is writing these last verses. It is also followed by another verse which is self-similar to the ending in Deuteronomy.

This should be sufficient evidence to support the hypothesis that Jesus is the Promised Prophet written about in Deuteronomy.

There will be much more empirical evidence shared to further support this hypothesis to elevate it to theory status.

Observation, which is what the preceding is, is acceptable empirical evidence. Empirical evidence is gathered to remove other possible claims. I’m not saying that the above proves the hypothesis, but that it supports it sufficiently.

Offered in the Love of Christ,
Harold SmileSmileSmile
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04-03-2017, 08:20 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(03-03-2017 04:49 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  
(03-03-2017 06:24 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Bible proves bible circlejerk.

I see that biblical scholarship has been presented in this thread to you and you've ignored it. Now you're just wasting your time. Drinking Beverage

LOL. Now you're sounding like some of the Christian clergy I've debated.

Is that your modus operandi? Come up with a bunch of self-interpreted bullshit, ignore what other people have to say about it, then pat yourself on the back for having figured it all out, while proclaiming yourself the follower of the Truth with a capital T.

Oh we never see that on this forum, what unique perspective you bring here. Facepalm




Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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04-03-2017, 08:27 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(04-03-2017 08:14 AM)hecrow55 Wrote:  Question: Is Jesus this Promised Prophet?

The Jewish prophets did not foretell the future. Their job was to tell the Jewish people why god was making them suffer.

Your god is not real.
FBH

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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04-03-2017, 08:33 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(04-03-2017 06:49 AM)hecrow55 Wrote:  Perhaps it would be better to view the Bible as a literary mystery, which it is, and the study of it is to find out the who, what, where, why, and how.

A good mystery always has the clues to which the answers to these questions are within the context of the book.

It would be aggravating to read a mystery novel and in the end, the author revealing of the mystery is not consistent with what had been written.

Perhaps not.
You are totally ignorant of ancient Near Eastern literature. The Bible is not special. Perhaps you should go get an education about the subject you pretend to discuss.
You are nothing but another internet nut with yet another crazy pet theory.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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04-03-2017, 09:05 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
OP, how about reading the epic of Gilgamesh at some point.

There's really no point in arguing with your circular argument until you have yourself familiarised with literature from the same region.
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04-03-2017, 09:07 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(04-03-2017 08:14 AM)hecrow55 Wrote:  Comparative Study of Moses and Jesus

Joh 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

Facepalm

And the halfling forth shall stand

explain to me why Frodo isn't the halfling that the ancient texts spoke of

You can't use one part of a story to justify another part unless you can demonstrate that they are more than just stories. You do realize that the people that wrote the later arts knew the earlier parts and were quite able to deliberately make it sound like things matched up, right? You get around that by showing that the events actually happened, not just that a story is internally consistent.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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