Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
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06-03-2017, 06:50 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(04-03-2017 05:27 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  Joseph having to go to Bethlehem for the census because that was the home of his heritage.

Interesting that this census is not spoken of in any other contemporary source.

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06-03-2017, 06:54 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(06-03-2017 06:48 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  2) Consider that your omnipotent, omniscient deity hasn't given you the arguments, proof or evidence that would convince us.

And being omniscient he exactly knows what would have convinced us. Tongue

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06-03-2017, 07:01 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(04-03-2017 07:23 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  I never said that a prophet's role was to predict the future.
I said that what they wrote was ascribed to God, Jesus said He would fulfill it.

Pro Tip Harold. Your words are here to be quoted. Remember that.

(04-03-2017 08:14 AM)hecrow55 Wrote:  Jesus makes the claim that something that is credited to have been written by Moses is about Him.

Question: Is Jesus this Promised Prophet?

This should be sufficient evidence to support the hypothesis that Jesus is the Promised Prophet written about in Deuteronomy.

(04-03-2017 04:48 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  If it was ascribed to God, then Jesus was determined to fulfill it.

(04-03-2017 05:45 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  Let's deal with the 2nd one first since it is also evidence of Jesus being the Prophet like unto Moses.

(04-03-2017 04:30 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  As I stated before, Jesus says He came to fulfill the law and the prophets, not to destroy.

(04-03-2017 06:09 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  As far as a fable that Jesus fulfills, would the story of Adam and Eve do?

(05-03-2017 05:44 AM)hecrow55 Wrote:  By the way, when it is written that Moses said there would be a Prophet like unto himself that is definitely a prediction of the future.

You are clearly saying that the words of the "prophets" were about jesus.
That jesus fulfilled the prophecy.
That the prophecies were a prediction of the future.

None of those are true.

(04-03-2017 07:23 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  He never said it was a prediction about Himself, but that it was written of Him.

And that would be the same thing. Don't split hairs.

(04-03-2017 07:23 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  By fulfilling that which was written which no other man could possibly do testifies to His uniqueness.
No, it means that they made the gospel stories fit the words they thought were prophecies.

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06-03-2017, 07:12 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(06-03-2017 02:31 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  I think these old "schools" of religious and myth writing were filled with people who understood how to make people think in a certain way and the skills were taught and handed down over generations.
Yes, and that wouldn't require them to have a particularly developed or accurate theory of how / why it works, only the ability to observe THAT it works. Simple trial and error would lead to the general characteristics of holy books. They are all written as templates for the imagination. They are portentous and yet vacuous and vague. Filled with high-minded deepities that, when you actually unpack them, mean whatever the reader sees them to mean, but nothing inherently. The narrative bits are archetypal stories of archetypal heroes that people loved to tell around campfires and now love to endlessly retell around the 21st century equivalents. This also produces an aura of "timelessness" that superficially seems to suggest both prescience and profundity. In fact it is simply working with the brain, which loves to deal in symbols and symbolism.
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06-03-2017, 01:46 PM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
Quote:By the way, when it is written that Moses said there would be a Prophet like unto himself that is definitely a prediction of the future.


"Moses" is no more real than your fucking jesus.

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07-03-2017, 10:58 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(01-03-2017 08:30 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  
(01-03-2017 08:17 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  If jesus did not exist then anything attributed to a fictional character are also works of fiction.

Can you prove the character of Jesus written about in the bible by anonymous writers even existed in the first place ?

There are non-biblical sources that mention Jesus, most notably a few Roman historians. Most people, skeptics included, acknowledge that He did exist.

Late to the party, but the claims of non-biblical sources for Jesus always make me laugh. For starters, even being generous, there are literally only a few. Second, not one of them are from eyewitnesses to anything the claimed Jesus would have done, like scripture they were written well after the time Jesus supposedly lived.

And finally, it's like the apologists haven't even read the sources. The "best" one is from Josephus and even that one is mostly forged, and if you take out the forged part it basically says "Apparently there was this Jesus guy who did some stuff". In fact the gist of ALL the non-biblical sources is "people say some Jesus dude existed" and even one of them is almost mocking, saying "these Christians actually believe this Jesus guy did this stuff."

The "non-biblical sources for Jesus" is another one of those things that believers often repeat as fact but few seem to realize how flimsy the evidence actually is.
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08-03-2017, 01:59 PM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
Also, do any Christians attempt to try to rationally explain why in all those so called prophecies about Jesus, they call blantantly say what he'll be called and it's not Jesus? I mean if someone says "a dude is coming over named Todd" and a guy shows up named Dave, you don't assume "Oh Dave must be Todd!"
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08-03-2017, 02:01 PM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
Ooh, I just watched the latest TBR which was about that very subject:




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08-03-2017, 02:32 PM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
Quote:By the way, when it is written that Moses said there would be a Prophet like unto himself that is definitely a prediction of the future.

Moses (supposedly) led his people out of Egypt.
Jesus did nothing comparable. Not only did he not doing anything, except yak on hillsides, he got himself killed. If it's a "prediction" it certainly wasn't about Jesus.

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08-03-2017, 03:41 PM (This post was last modified: 08-03-2017 03:51 PM by hecrow55.)
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(08-03-2017 02:32 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
Quote:By the way, when it is written that Moses said there would be a Prophet like unto himself that is definitely a prediction of the future.

Moses (supposedly) led his people out of Egypt.
Jesus did nothing comparable. Not only did he not doing anything, except yak on hillsides, he got himself killed. If it's a "prediction" it certainly wasn't about Jesus.

Self-similarly, Moses also died in the wilderness before the Isrealites crossed the Jordan into the "Promised Land".
And Jesus did not die of crucifixion. Roman centurions stationed at the site would have been very familiar with how one died of crucifixion.
When they saw HOW He died are written to have been amazed, one saying, 'Surely this was a righteous man' while another exclaimed, 'Surely, this was the son of God.'
When they were ordered to break the legs of the condemned to hasten death, they found Jesus already dead. To make sure He wasn't faking, one stabbed Him with a spear.
When two men asked for the body from Pilate, he marveled that Jesus was dead already. He sent to learn how long had He been dead before releasing the body.
Pilate, who had sentenced many to be crucified, certainly would have been familiar with the excruciating and agonizing prolong death caused by crucifixion.

How did Jesus die then?

In the Garden of Gethsemane, Jesus told the three disciples that His soul sorrowed even until death.
It has been proven medically that it is possible to die from such deep sorrow, such as one mate dying of grief after the passing of their beloved partner.
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