Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
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09-03-2017, 05:26 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(09-03-2017 05:00 AM)hecrow55 Wrote:  Would like to state though that I won't answer any questions that do not pertain to the topic mentioned in the OP. The testing of the doctrine ascribe to Jesus as whether to be proved false. Evidence needed, not opinion.

In other words, an attempt at waving away critique of the utterly flawed premises and baseline assumptions as not being 'on point'.

Yeah, fuck that. Dodgy

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09-03-2017, 06:01 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(09-03-2017 05:00 AM)hecrow55 Wrote:  Would like to state though that I won't answer any questions that do not pertain to the topic mentioned in the OP. The testing of the doctrine ascribe to Jesus as whether to be proved false. Evidence needed, not opinion.

Facepalm

Please provide the evidence that Odysseus wasn't tempted by the sirens, that Frodo was not the prophesied halfling, and that Oliver Twist didn't fall into a gang run by Fagin.

Failing that, please provide evidence that your Jesus story is anything more than another work of literature. Then we can discuss whether it is false.

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09-03-2017, 06:17 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(08-03-2017 03:41 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  
(08-03-2017 02:32 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Moses (supposedly) led his people out of Egypt.
Jesus did nothing comparable. Not only did he not doing anything, except yak on hillsides, he got himself killed. If it's a "prediction" it certainly wasn't about Jesus.

Self-similarly, Moses also died in the wilderness before the Isrealites crossed the Jordan into the "Promised Land".
And Jesus did not die of crucifixion. Roman centurions stationed at the site would have been very familiar with how one died of crucifixion.
When they saw HOW He died are written to have been amazed, one saying, 'Surely this was a righteous man' while another exclaimed, 'Surely, this was the son of God.'
When they were ordered to break the legs of the condemned to hasten death, they found Jesus already dead. To make sure He wasn't faking, one stabbed Him with a spear.
When two men asked for the body from Pilate, he marveled that Jesus was dead already. He sent to learn how long had He been dead before releasing the body.
Pilate, who had sentenced many to be crucified, certainly would have been familiar with the excruciating and agonizing prolong death caused by crucifixion.

How did Jesus die then?

In the Garden of Gethsemane, Jesus told the three disciples that His soul sorrowed even until death.
It has been proven medically that it is possible to die from such deep sorrow, such as one mate dying of grief after the passing of their beloved partner.

In the gospel stories, Jesus "gave up the ghost". So why didn't he just "give up the ghost" after the first Roman soldier hit him and drew blood?

This would have satisfied the requirement for blood shed and suffering, there was no reason for him to do the dead guy on a stick routine.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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09-03-2017, 06:18 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
OP, where's yer science? I haven't seen any yet.

Look, I'll give you a short summary of the scientific method:
  • You start with observations. Something like "Hey those starry things up there, you know, some of them move around."
  • Sometimes you need to check the observations, especially if you heard about them second or third hand. Otherwise you end up with maps showing dog headed humans and so forth - not all hearsay is credible.
  • After you're sure you've got good data you can formulate a hypothesis. "Those starry things move around" isn't really that much to go on, but once you've confirmed that they really do, you might ask more questions like "I wonder how far away they are?"
  • You make a model, say "I think the stars are really far away, and I think the close ones are the ones that move."
  • You try to test if your model is correct. If it passes the first few tests then you devise more devious and stronger tests. You try to prove that it's wrong. You publish your results. You invite other people to think of ways in which your model could be wrong.
  • Only after it's gone through the mill several times and no one's really found anything wrong with it do you start to think "Hey, maybe this is somewhat close to reality".

Science is just an endless rehashing of this process. Notice what is absent there? There's no preaching, there's no "I am RIGHT and THIS SCRIPTURE SAYS SO". The tests are the only valid thing. If a hypothesis, no matter how beautiful, fails the test, then it's *out*, and there's no appeal.

Now tell me, how do you propose to apply this method to your scripture studies?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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09-03-2017, 06:22 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(09-03-2017 05:00 AM)hecrow55 Wrote:  
(08-03-2017 09:39 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Are you going to just keep changing the subject or are you going to try to respond to the many questions we've asked?

Shall we take your silence as an admission of defeat?

Nah. Just been real busy lately. Besides, that post was a continuation of the similarities between Moses and Jesus.

Don't know if I will ever have time to answer all the questions. Since I don't constantly view the thread, there are too many posts to go back over when I do visit it.

Would like to state though that I won't answer any questions that do not pertain to the topic mentioned in the OP. The testing of the doctrine ascribe to Jesus as whether to be proved false. Evidence needed, not opinion.

[ Bolding mine. ] Even though you yourself have diverged from the topic of the OP? Such as when you recently claimed that jesus died of a broken heart not crucifixion. That's hypocrisy.

You don't have time to read through them? Then why are you here? You're not here for a discussion, you're here to preach.

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10-03-2017, 04:42 PM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
By your scientific claims could we speculates what's going to happen becuase jesus talked in parables and the new testament is the history of the jews.
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10-03-2017, 04:49 PM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(10-03-2017 04:42 PM)socialistview Wrote:  ... the new testament is the history of the jews.

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10-03-2017, 05:00 PM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
Sorry the old testament.
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10-03-2017, 05:31 PM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(09-03-2017 06:22 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(09-03-2017 05:00 AM)hecrow55 Wrote:  Nah. Just been real busy lately. Besides, that post was a continuation of the similarities between Moses and Jesus.

Don't know if I will ever have time to answer all the questions. Since I don't constantly view the thread, there are too many posts to go back over when I do visit it.

Would like to state though that I won't answer any questions that do not pertain to the topic mentioned in the OP. The testing of the doctrine ascribe to Jesus as whether to be proved false. Evidence needed, not opinion.

[ Bolding mine. ] Even though you yourself have diverged from the topic of the OP? Such as when you recently claimed that jesus died of a broken heart not crucifixion. That's hypocrisy.

You don't have time to read through them? Then why are you here? You're not here for a discussion, you're here to preach.

Did I divulge? Here is Jesus' words on the subject.

Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

If Jesus died of crucifixion, then that would be someone taking His life from Him.
This is within the OP of what is ascribed to Jesus saying it written in the Gospels.
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10-03-2017, 05:59 PM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(10-03-2017 05:31 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  This is within the OP of what is ascribed to Jesus saying it written in the Gospels.

Cool story, bro. Got any actual, demonstrable reason we should think it's more than that?

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