Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
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13-03-2017, 09:04 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
PS hecrow55: please tell us what scientific training you have, as per previous requests. Because it seems like you're mouthing off about stuff you don't actually know anything about. Although I'll give you points for use of the words "dependent/independent variable", but you used those terms incorrectly anyway.

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13-03-2017, 09:26 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
It says the same power that was in jesus to resurrect the dead is gods powers. The jews have direct connection to god while the gentiles only through jesus and I don't know if any other religion resurrects the dead but osiris but that was at the beginning of creation but every religion has a main god.
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13-03-2017, 09:55 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(01-03-2017 07:21 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?

One day I awoke with the absolute certainty that the books of Corinthians could be delved by artificial intelligence to reveal in no uncertain terms the marketing strategy of the cult, inchoate.

No. As a prophet I can testify to prophecy, and revealed religion by definition is prophecy. In rational terms, the writings of lunatics confirmed and codified into a political institution. Prophets do not speak from word to word, prophets speak the wording of the image.

Your Bible ideally recreates the imaging from the words, the context, the diorama; there is no objective truth there.

For instance, unequivocally Iron Man 3 was the best superhero movie made. Discuss.

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13-03-2017, 10:14 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(13-03-2017 06:23 AM)hecrow55 Wrote:  Hypothesis statement: The teachings of Jesus are the truth which the other writings in the Bible bear witness to them.

Dependant variable: The words accredited to Jesus in the Gospels
Independent variables: All the other writings in the Bible.

Test: find evidence that either supports or falsifies anything accredited to Jesus.

Hypothesis statement: The teachings of Captain Sisko are the truth [and] the other writings in the Star Trek canon bear witness to them.

Dependant variable: The words accredited to Sisko in Deep Space 9
Independent variables: All the other Star Trek scripts

Test: find evidence that either supports or falsifies anything accredited to Sisko.

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13-03-2017, 10:28 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
Thirty-five pages of responses; I haven't gone through them all so if I'm repeating someone, I apologize in advance.

Isn't The Jesus Seminar pretty much doing what the OP is asking?
(01-03-2017 07:21 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  Question: Is the doctrine of Jesus the truth as He declares it to be?

Test: Can any of the sayings of Jesus be proved to be a lie?

In order to make any sort of claim based on the bible, you have to establish the following:
1. That there is a God
2. That there is only one God
3. That this singular God is either the author of, or inspiration for, the bible
4. That God had a son named Jesus
5. That the stories, God's instructions and Jesus' teachings have been copied down, perfectly, by scribes some 2000 years ago
6. That those instructions have not been changed or modified in any form, through translation or copy errors, since their inception.

Only once each and every one of those proofs have been met, can the bible be used as an argument.

It seems to me that 1 through 5 cannot be proven, and we already know that the bible has been modified numerous times to fit certain political, social, cultural, economic and military aims throughout history.

But let's just say, for sake of argument, that conditions 1 through 6 have been met.

The answer to your test is "yes" (though I hesitate to use the word "lie").

The most egregious example comes from Jesus' failed prophecy when he is reported to have said, "I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened." (Matt 24:34; also reported in Mark 13:30 and Luke 21:32.)

Now, I have heard, repeatedly, apologists twist themselves into knots and pretend that the word "generation" means something different, or the phrase "pass away" or "all these things" mean something other than what they actually do.

But if one is to take the bible at its word, then this prophecy is false, thereby making Jesus' comment false. (I won't go so far as to call it a lie. He - if he said that - was simply mistaken.)
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13-03-2017, 12:02 PM (This post was last modified: 13-03-2017 12:06 PM by TheInquisition.)
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(13-03-2017 10:28 AM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  Thirty-five pages of responses; I haven't gone through them all so if I'm repeating someone, I apologize in advance.

Isn't The Jesus Seminar pretty much doing what the OP is asking?
(01-03-2017 07:21 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  Question: Is the doctrine of Jesus the truth as He declares it to be?

Test: Can any of the sayings of Jesus be proved to be a lie?

In order to make any sort of claim based on the bible, you have to establish the following:
1. That there is a God
2. That there is only one God
3. That this singular God is either the author of, or inspiration for, the bible
4. That God had a son named Jesus
5. That the stories, God's instructions and Jesus' teachings have been copied down, perfectly, by scribes some 2000 years ago
6. That those instructions have not been changed or modified in any form, through translation or copy errors, since their inception.

Only once each and every one of those proofs have been met, can the bible be used as an argument.

It seems to me that 1 through 5 cannot be proven, and we already know that the bible has been modified numerous times to fit certain political, social, cultural, economic and military aims throughout history.

But let's just say, for sake of argument, that conditions 1 through 6 have been met.

The answer to your test is "yes" (though I hesitate to use the word "lie").

The most egregious example comes from Jesus' failed prophecy when he is reported to have said, "I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened." (Matt 24:34; also reported in Mark 13:30 and Luke 21:32.)

Now, I have heard, repeatedly, apologists twist themselves into knots and pretend that the word "generation" means something different, or the phrase "pass away" or "all these things" mean something other than what they actually do.

But if one is to take the bible at its word, then this prophecy is false, thereby making Jesus' comment false. (I won't go so far as to call it a lie. He - if he said that - was simply mistaken.)

There's also the problem of establishing that anything in the New Testament is a direct quote of Jesus. As there is not a single word in the gospels that was written in Jesus' lifetime, the best that you can hope for is memory of an event decades before what was written by anonymous authors of the gospels.

This is an insurmountable problem when you don't even know who wrote the words you are referring to. It becomes hopeless when these anonymous writers do it decades after the supposed events.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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13-03-2017, 12:12 PM (This post was last modified: 13-03-2017 12:22 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(13-03-2017 09:26 AM)socialistview Wrote:  It says the same power that was in jesus to resurrect the dead is gods powers. The jews have direct connection to god while the gentiles only through jesus and I don't know if any other religion resurrects the dead but osiris but that was at the beginning of creation but every religion has a main god.

Jews, in the Jewish Apocalyptic period, *if* they were judged to be "heroic", were "exalted" (*raised up*), in the traditional Jewish "Apocalyptic hero" sense, (not "raised from the dead"). "Raised from the dead" was never something a Jew was thought to have the power to do, or participate in. It's an incorrect translation from the Greek. All this goes WAY over your head, and the heads of the believers in this thread, as you have absolutely no education in the topics you pretend to be able to discuss. But, by all means, please continue to make complete and total fools of yourselves. We have come to expect no less. Facepalm
There were many messianic wandering preachers who were said to go about doing miracles. The literacy rate of the population was practically zero, and it was an age of magic. There is no reason to buy the nonsense reported in the gospels.

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13-03-2017, 12:21 PM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(13-03-2017 06:23 AM)hecrow55 Wrote:  Hypothesis statement: The teachings of Jesus are the truth which the other writings in the Bible bear witness to them.

Dependant variable: The words accredited to Jesus in the Gospels
Independent variables: All the other writings in the Bible.

Test: find evidence that either supports or falsifies anything accredited to Jesus.

You have no "test", as you have not established a METHOD to determine that one sentence refers to a later event. It's all random "dot-connections". You have not established HOW you know one thing refers to him, and one does NOT. You draw your imaginary connections with NO METHOD. That is NOT science.

You are a 110% FRAUD, and snake-oil salesman.

It's also completely non-theological, non-Biblical, and un-Christian.
"No one shall come to me unless the Father draw him", "Many are called, but few are CHOSEN". It's the god in this cult that does the "picking". Not believers due to science, or anything else.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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13-03-2017, 12:24 PM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(13-03-2017 10:14 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(13-03-2017 06:23 AM)hecrow55 Wrote:  Hypothesis statement: The teachings of Jesus are the truth which the other writings in the Bible bear witness to them.

Dependant variable: The words accredited to Jesus in the Gospels
Independent variables: All the other writings in the Bible.

Test: find evidence that either supports or falsifies anything accredited to Jesus.

Hypothesis statement: The teachings of Captain Sisko are the truth [and] the other writings in the Star Trek canon bear witness to them.

Dependant variable: The words accredited to Sisko in Deep Space 9
Independent variables: All the other Star Trek scripts

Test: find evidence that either supports or falsifies anything accredited to Sisko.

Ahem, i think you mean "The Emissary", sir. He who was chosen by The Prophets.
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13-03-2017, 12:29 PM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(13-03-2017 12:24 PM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  
(13-03-2017 10:14 AM)unfogged Wrote:  Hypothesis statement: The teachings of Captain Sisko are the truth [and] the other writings in the Star Trek canon bear witness to them.

Dependant variable: The words accredited to Sisko in Deep Space 9
Independent variables: All the other Star Trek scripts

Test: find evidence that either supports or falsifies anything accredited to Sisko.

Ahem, i think you mean "The Emissary", sir. He who was chosen by The Prophets.

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