Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
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02-03-2017, 01:14 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(01-03-2017 09:33 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  Did you know that there is instructions not to give heed (credibility) to Jewish fables?

Whereas Christian fables get a free pass huh?

Do you know a single thing about science, you nitwit? Name me one science course of college level that you have *passed*. If you don't know what you're talking about, don't open your trap. It's pretty simple.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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02-03-2017, 01:59 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
Oh dear... yet another rabid apologist/proselytiser posting page after page of biblical scripture—as if none of us has ever seen it before. Scripture is not "evidence" of anything at all, either historical or scientific, and laughably is often used to "prove" its own prognostications.

I'd like to welcome you to the forum mate, but if your sole purpose here is to convert and/or recruit any of us to your Christian cause, or to "prove" (or disprove) any of the claims made in your holy book, then I'm not so sure I should.

And your posting #5 is really beyond the pale! Do really think I'm gonna read six pages of that bullshit? At any rate, it's all been said a thousand times before by other Christian apologists well before you—so unless you have some new thoughts you're really wasting your time here mate.

And no; the study of scripture definitely cannot be done in a "scientific" way—any more so than "Beowulf" or "Alice's Adventure in Wonderland" or "Lord of The Rings" can be. It's a fucking fiction! The bible is merely an ancient work of fantasy, myth, superstition, irrationality, antiscience, shibboleths, misrepresentation, and blatant lies. How is science gonna rationally study that lot?

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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02-03-2017, 02:09 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(02-03-2017 01:59 AM)SYZ Wrote:  The bible is merely an ancient work of fantasy, myth, superstition, irrationality, antiscience, shibboleths, misrepresentation, and blatant lies. How is science gonna rationally study that lot?

Well, one can study it in context as a historical document. Research the origins, how the various books came to be regarded as canonical, who put it all together, dates of origin of the legends and so forth. Look at old versions (e.g. dead sea scrolls) and see how the texts have changed. Tie in some of the events with archaeology. That doesn't lend any credence to the mythical elements of course, but it does extract the value that *is* contained in the Bible, which is that it is a survival from antiquity and that it may contain some information of historical interest.

I doubt that's what OP's going on about though.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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02-03-2017, 02:12 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
I'll throw this in for free as well as a tangential comment:

I don't care if the whole bible is true, cover to cover. If it was, and this was shown to be the case, I'd be a theist. But I certainly wouldn't become a Christian. I'd carry on just as I do now. God is irrelevant to me.

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02-03-2017, 02:18 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
[Image: 67584104.jpg]

The more one asserts their own unquestioned preconceived beliefs, the more demanding I will be for empirical evidence for I will accept nothing else in place of it
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02-03-2017, 02:32 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
As soon as religion moves out of the metaphorical and makes claims about the real world, it overtly intrudes on science. You can believe whatever hooky mumbo-jumbo makes you feel better, but as soon as you edge towards the idea that the bronze age fairy tale in Genesis actually happened, now you are making overt claims about the real world; and it is here that they wither under the scrutiny of scientific inquiry.

But some things to keep in mind for the future.

1 - Define your terms. What do you mean by 'god'? Unless you can provide a meaningful (e.g. falsifiable) definition, then your term is meaningless. One might as well debate the existence of universe creating Norks, undetectable garage dragons, or invisible pink unicorns.

2 - Learn about the pagan polytheistic origins of Judaism, and how it borrowed and adapted from their Sumerian, Egyptian, Canaanite, and Babylonian neighbors. Do all of that before you ever attempt to take anything in the Old or New Testament at face value. The books are very much a product of their time, and not special or markedly different from other ancient religious texts.

3 - Evidence or GTFO.

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02-03-2017, 04:54 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
I see many have been going to the same old argument that much of the OT has been proven false. I agree.

Let's take Genesis 1. Totally proven false by the evidence science has produced that is the Big Bang Theory.

This Jewish fable has a common source with many other religions creation stories. They are derivatives from a Sumerian story. In each case, the original was altered to meet social setting and political aspirations of men seeking to reign in each particular society.

But the original OP states that it is only the words attributed to Jesus (His doctrine) that is to be tested to see if any word of it can be proven false (falsified).

As of yet, for the most part you all have only expressed your own personal opinions.

An example would be to prove this false:

Mat 23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

There are many biblical examples of this being true. One of them is Joseph (Genesis) and his two dreams of becoming the one to whom all his brothers and his father would bow down to. If you are familiar with the story, then you know that once he declared this openly he suffered two acts a abasement. First, sold into slavery by his brothers. Later, thrown into prison. It wasn't until he humbled himself before Pharaoh that he was exalted to a higher state.

I have personally suffered abasement after I have said something that would be consider an exaltation of self. Of course, I am fully aware that personal experiences are not to be considered as evidence. That is, unless it can be shown to be a common occurrence in life.

Take time to think about when you may have suffered a form of abasement and consider whether or not you had previously exalted yourself. But it does take an honest assessment of your life which few people are willing to do.

Offered in the Love of Christ,
Harold
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02-03-2017, 05:10 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(02-03-2017 02:32 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  As soon as religion moves out of the metaphorical and makes claims about the real world, it overtly intrudes on science. You can believe whatever hooky mumbo-jumbo makes you feel better, but as soon as you edge towards the idea that the bronze age fairy tale in Genesis actually happened, now you are making overt claims about the real world; and it is here that they wither under the scrutiny of scientific inquiry.

But some things to keep in mind for the future.

1 - Define your terms. What do you mean by 'god'? Unless you can provide a meaningful (e.g. falsifiable) definition, then your term is meaningless. One might as well debate the existence of universe creating Norks, undetectable garage dragons, or invisible pink unicorns.

2 - Learn about the pagan polytheistic origins of Judaism, and how it borrowed and adapted from their Sumerian, Egyptian, Canaanite, and Babylonian neighbors. Do all of that before you ever attempt to take anything in the Old or New Testament at face value. The books are very much a product of their time, and not special or markedly different from other ancient religious texts.

3 - Evidence or GTFO.

I've taken nothing at face value. And I am fully aware of how Judaism adopted things from other cultures they have encountered. The law given by Moses actually predates Genesis. Though stated slightly differently, it almost entirely is contained in the Egyptian Book of the Dead. Moses had been trained up in all the ways of the Egyptians and did not depart from them when he was old. This includes the animal sacrifices for sin and other things which was a common practice throughout the area.

It is also true that many pagan and other rituals have been adapted into the Christianity religion. The celebrations of Easter and Christmas in particular. But then that is evidence of the answer to Jesus' question:

Luk 23:31 For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?

Ecc 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

In other words, all the mistakes made before the cross would be made again after the cross. Thus, the ritual sacrifices done before are also being done in Christianity as the preaching of Christ crucified is prevalent throughout the religion.

It is written that God gave us the choice of life or death to choose between. Christ crucified is His death. The words He speaks are His life. That His death has been chosen over His life is in fulfillment of what was written.

Jer 8:3 And death shall be chosen rather than life by all the residue of them that remain of this evil family, which remain in all the places whither I have driven them, saith the LORD of hosts.

Offered in the Love of Christ,
Harold Smile Smile Smile
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02-03-2017, 05:12 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
You're still making the argument from ignorance, as I noted in my post. You're also falling foul of confirmation bias, by focusing on all the times a "saying" turns out to be true, and ignoring the times it isn't. I can just as easily prove that "every car is green" if I ignore all non-green cars.

What importance is it if there are some things in the bible that are accurate? I don't get what your point is here at all.

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02-03-2017, 05:17 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(02-03-2017 02:32 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  As soon as religion moves out of the metaphorical and makes claims about the real world, it overtly intrudes on science. You can believe whatever hooky mumbo-jumbo makes you feel better, but as soon as you edge towards the idea that the bronze age fairy tale in Genesis actually happened, now you are making overt claims about the real world; and it is here that they wither under the scrutiny of scientific inquiry.

But some things to keep in mind for the future.

1 - Define your terms. What do you mean by 'god'? Unless you can provide a meaningful (e.g. falsifiable) definition, then your term is meaningless. One might as well debate the existence of universe creating Norks, undetectable garage dragons, or invisible pink unicorns.

2 - Learn about the pagan polytheistic origins of Judaism, and how it borrowed and adapted from their Sumerian, Egyptian, Canaanite, and Babylonian neighbors. Do all of that before you ever attempt to take anything in the Old or New Testament at face value. The books are very much a product of their time, and not special or markedly different from other ancient religious texts.

3 - Evidence or GTFO.

Jesus teaches God is a Spirit. He also says that the words He speaks are spirit. Therefore, God is The Word.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

I'll go deeper into this later today. Have to get ready for work.

Offered in the Love of Christ,
Harold Smile Smile Smile
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