Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
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02-03-2017, 05:34 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(02-03-2017 05:17 AM)hecrow55 Wrote:  Jesus teaches God is a Spirit. He also says that the words He speaks are spirit. Therefore, God is The Word.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

You obviously chose to ignore my suggestion about not repeatedly posting scripture to justify your claims. Biblical scripture is not considered valid evidence by any atheist.

Thus far, you have not defined what you mean by the word "God". Please do so.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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02-03-2017, 05:36 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
DEFINE GOD BEFORE POSTING ANYTHING ELSE

biblical verses don't prove the bible

The more one asserts their own unquestioned preconceived beliefs, the more demanding I will be for empirical evidence for I will accept nothing else in place of it
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02-03-2017, 05:36 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(02-03-2017 05:17 AM)hecrow55 Wrote:  Jesus teaches God is a Spirit. He also says that the words He speaks are spirit. Therefore, God is The Word.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

I'll go deeper into this later today. Have to get ready for work.

Offered in the Love of Christ,
Harold Smile Smile Smile

And I teach that God is bullshit. If you want to be an apologist, try some less fucken infantile argument.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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02-03-2017, 06:38 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(02-03-2017 05:17 AM)hecrow55 Wrote:  Jesus teaches God is a Spirit.

"I don't believe jesus existed. I don't believe there is any evidence to suggest a god exists and the same goes for spirit (except in highschool cheerleaders. They've got spirit, yes they do.)"

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was....

"Lots & lots of energy - Cosmology 101"

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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02-03-2017, 06:46 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(01-03-2017 07:21 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?

Yes. Read Bart Ehrman.

(01-03-2017 07:21 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  Question: Is the doctrine of Jesus the truth as He declares it to be?

Prove via scientific evidence that jesus existed. (Others have already noted this.)
Prove via scientific evidence that jesus was the son of god.
State specifically the doctrines that you are attributing to jesus.
Prove via scientific evidence that jesus originated those doctrines.

(01-03-2017 07:21 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  Test: Can any of the sayings of Jesus be proved to be a lie?

Prove that you are not a thief. (props to JT Eberhard.)

(01-03-2017 07:21 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  Offered in the Love of Christ,
Harold

(I always close with that. I do not mean it to be an offense to anyone. I just consider what I write to be offerings, not the final word on any matter.)

In that spirit, then I'll close with:

Your god is not real.
FBH

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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02-03-2017, 06:52 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(02-03-2017 06:46 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Yes. Read Bart Ehrman.

Who still reads it as a theologian adding some textual criticism. For example he's one of the select few maintaining there's some evidence for a historical Jesus. He's not a historian, who would and do read the bible in an entirely different fashion. Ehrman also maintains that people at that time followed the same standards for writing a report we do today. Which couldn't be further from the truth. The main goal was to paint an ideal or to issue a warning. Not factual truth.
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02-03-2017, 06:53 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(01-03-2017 07:21 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  Test: Can any of the sayings of Jesus be proved to be a lie?

Trying to prove something to be false is an important part of science but that comes after demonstrating the evidence that supports the assertion in the first place. Science doesn't start with "I think magic exists and you can't prove it doesn't".

It's quite clear that you start with the position that your beliefs are true and that you will find any way you can to make biblical text support those beliefs. Your posts show that you ignore what is inconvenient and you twist passages so that you can create a consistent package. That's pretty common but it is theology, not science.


Quote:Offered in the Love of Christ,
Harold

(I always close with that. I do not mean it to be an offense to anyone. I just consider what I write to be offerings, not the final word on any matter.)

Whether you mean it to be offensive or not, it is. There are ways to say that you are expressing opinions or offering things for thought without implying that you are somehow better than your interlocutors.


(01-03-2017 09:27 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  The Bible would be acceptable evidence in any court of law under the ancient documents rule.

No document could possibly suffice to attest to supernatural claims. If they could we'd have to accept all the other god stories and creation myths. Ancient documents might be usable as evidence in mundane matters if no other evidence was available but that's hardly the case here. The claims are not mundane and where the bible can be corroborated it turns out to be wrong except in trivial matters.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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02-03-2017, 06:58 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
To add to my above post.

We even observe problems with scriptural evidence in this day and age. A biography of Hitler from the Third Reich would have to be read entirely differently than one coming out today. And even today you should be very aware of who the author is and if he may have an agenda.

That's true for any kind of text. You always have to ask yourself when, why and by whom it was written.
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02-03-2017, 07:02 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(01-03-2017 07:59 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  Traditional Christianity claims that the Bible is the truth.

Which bible?

Greek Orthodox?
Russian Orthodox?
Georgian?
Armenian Apostolic?
New Testament of the Coptic Bible? (Egyptian)
The Peshitta Tradition? (Syrian)
The Ethiopian New Testament? (Ethiopian)
The Ethiopian Narrow Canon? (Ethiopian)
The Douay-Rheims Bible? (Roman Catholic)
The Authorized King James Version?
The English Revised Version?
The American Standard Version?
The Revised Standard Version?
The New American Standard Version?
The New King James Version?
The New International Version?
The English Standard Version?


What about the Apocryphal texts? How do you discount them?

Infancy Gospel of James
Infancy Gospel of Thomas
Syriac Infancy Gospel
History of Joseph the Carpenter
Life of John the Baptist
Gospel of the Ebionite
Gospel of the Hebrews
Gospel of the Nazarenes
Gospel of Marcion
Gospel of Mani
Gospel of Apelles
Gospel of Bardesanes
Gospel of Basilides
Gospel of Thomas
Gospel of Peter
Gospel of Nicodemus
Pseudo-Cyril of Jerusalem, On the Life and the Passion of Christ
Gospel of Bartholomew
Questions of Bartholomew
Resurrection of Jesus Christ
Apocryphon of James
Book of Thomas the Contender
Dialogue of the Saviour
Gospel of Judas
Gospel of Mary Magdalene
Gospel of Philip
Greek Gospel of the Egyptians
The Sophia of Jesus Christ
Coptic Apocalypse of Paul
Gospel of Truth
Gnostic Apocalypse of Peter
Pistis Sophia
Second Treatise of the Great Seth
Apocryphon of John
Coptic Gospel of the Egyptians
Trimorphic Protennoia
Ophite Diagrams
Books of Jeu
Acts of Andrew
Acts of Barnabas
Acts of John
Acts of the Martyrs
Acts of Paul
Acts of Paul and Thecla
Acts of Peter
Acts of Peter and Andrew
Acts of Peter and Paul
Acts of Peter and the Twelve
Acts of Philip
Acts of Pilate
Acts of Thomas
Acts of Timothy
Acts of Xanthippe, Polyxena, and Rebecca
Epistle of Barnabas
Epistles of Clement
Epistle of the Corinthians to Paul
Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans
Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians
Epistle of Polycarp to the Philippians
Epistle to Diognetus
Epistle to the Laodiceans
Epistle to Seneca the Younger
Third Epistle to the Corinthians
Apocalypse of Paul
Apocalypse of Peter
Apocalypse of Pseudo-Methodius
Apocalypse of Thomas
Apocalypse of Stephen
First Apocalypse of James
Second Apocalypse of James
Apostolic Constitutions
Book of Nepos
Canons of the Apostles
Cave of Treasures
Clementine literature
Didache
Liturgy of St James
Penitence of Origen
Prayer of Paul
Sentences of Sextus
Physiologus
Book of the Bee
The Unknown Berlin Gospel
The Naassene Fragment
The Fayyum Fragment
The Secret Gospel of Mark
The Oxyrhynchus Gospels
The Egerton Gospel
Gospel of Eve
Gospel of the Four Heavenly Realms
Gospel of Matthias
Gospel of Perfection
Gospel of the Seventy
Gospel of Thaddaeus
Gospel of the Twelve
Memoria Apostolorum
1 and 2 Clement
Shepherd of Hermas
Didache
Epistle of Barnabas
Apocalypse of Peter
Third Epistle to the Corinthians


So, I ask again:

Which bible are you using and why is it true when all the others are false?

Your god is not real.
FBH

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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02-03-2017, 07:05 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(02-03-2017 04:54 AM)hecrow55 Wrote:  I have personally suffered abasement after I have said something that would be consider an exaltation of self. Of course, I am fully aware that personal experiences are not to be considered as evidence. That is, unless it can be shown to be a common occurrence in life.

Take time to think about when you may have suffered a form of abasement and consider whether or not you had previously exalted yourself. But it does take an honest assessment of your life which few people are willing to do.

You do realize that everybody has times when they "exalted" themselves and times when they were "abased". Most any instance of either state is going to be preceded by the other. It appears to be normal human psychology at work.

You look at times when people are abased and look for previous instances of being exalted and infer some sort of cosmic karma causing that change. How do you test for that cause? If you want to prove this scientifically what studies are you doing to quantify the effect and isolate the cause? Collecting a bunch of anecdotes and saying that you can make them fit your beliefs is pointless. I say that there are exaltation fairies that identify people who are abased and, feeling sorry for them, try to exalt them. Think back on times in your life when you were exalted and see if there wasn't a preceding abasement... as proof I offer the story of Cinderella where the fairy godmother, who was actually an exultation fairy, felt sorry for her. As corroboration, I offer Glinda from the Wizard of Oz who felt sorry for Dorothy.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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