Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
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02-03-2017, 09:39 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(02-03-2017 09:35 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(02-03-2017 09:33 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I corrected it to Judeo-Christian. As in, the god of the Jews and the god of the Christians is the same god.

We do not view them as the same.

I don't know who "we" is, but most christians I know (including my former christian self) do view them as the same god. You know...old testament and Torah and all. The god of the Jews and the god of the christians both come from the Abrahamic religion. They are one and the same.

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02-03-2017, 09:46 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(02-03-2017 09:39 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(02-03-2017 09:35 AM)Aliza Wrote:  We do not view them as the same.

I don't know who "we" is, but most christians I know (including my former christian self) do view them as the same god. You know...old testament and Torah and all. The god of the Jews and the god of the christians both come from the Abrahamic religion. They are one and the same.

The Jewish community --the ones with any religious training-- do not agree with the Christians that their god shares the same attributes as the Jewish G-d.

Just because the Christians impose their god's attributes onto ours doesn't mean that the previously established Jewish descriptions are overwritten.
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02-03-2017, 09:50 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(02-03-2017 09:46 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(02-03-2017 09:39 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I don't know who "we" is, but most christians I know (including my former christian self) do view them as the same god. You know...old testament and Torah and all. The god of the Jews and the god of the christians both come from the Abrahamic religion. They are one and the same.

The Jewish community --the ones with any religious training-- do not agree with the Christians that their god shares the same attributes as the Jewish G-d.

Just because the Christians impose their god's attributes onto ours doesn't mean that the previously established Jewish descriptions are overwritten.

Yes, the Jews do fundamentally disagree with attributes assigned to the christian religion and their interpretation of the Judeo-Chrisitian god. In a very similar way to how different christian denominations disagree about god and the christian religion and the bible (new or old testament). But the god of the jews and the god of the christians and the god of the muslims, are all sourced in the Abrahamic religion. They are all the same god, even if the followers of specific religions argue about details.

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02-03-2017, 09:52 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
Hint: if the Jews agreed with the Christians, they'd be Christians. If the Christians agreed with the Jews, they'd be Jews. (or add in Muslims in there too). That doesn't mean that they don't all worship the same god from the same initial religious source. I don't even know what hair you're trying to split.

Calling it the Judeo-Christian (or Abrahamic) God does not mean I (or anyone else) am saying that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all the same religion.

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02-03-2017, 10:00 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(02-03-2017 09:52 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Calling it the Judeo-Christian (or Abrahamic) God does not mean I (or anyone else) am saying that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all the same religion.

Calling anything judeo-christian is usually a poorly veiled political attempt at excluding Islam. At least that's how the term is used in politics these days. The judeo-christian heritage against the others.

It's not so long ago since the jews were belonging to the others, by the way. Nobody would have said it then.
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02-03-2017, 10:03 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(02-03-2017 10:00 AM)abaris Wrote:  
(02-03-2017 09:52 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Calling it the Judeo-Christian (or Abrahamic) God does not mean I (or anyone else) am saying that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all the same religion.

Calling anything judeo-christian is usually a poorly veiled political attempt at excluding Islam. At least that's how the term is used in politics these days. The judeo-christian heritage against the others.

It's not so long ago since the jews were belonging to the others, by the way. Nobody would have said it then.

I'm not cynical enough to think the term is intentionally exclusionary. I sincerely think most Christians are ignorant of the relationships among the Abrahamic religions, especially with respect to Islam. I was until I took a class on western religions (Judaism, Roman Catholicism, and Islam) and had the relationships pointed out explicitly for me.

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02-03-2017, 10:10 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(02-03-2017 10:03 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I'm not cynical enough to think the term is intentionally exclusionary.

It's got less to do with being cynical and more with observation. I hear the term most often from the political or religious right. And the way it's used is always exclusionary. Such as judeo-christian heritage being the pillars of our societies and has to be preserved against the evils of Islam. Sometimes against secularity, but that doesn't happen that often. I never once heard it mentioned in a neutral fashion.
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02-03-2017, 10:13 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(02-03-2017 10:10 AM)abaris Wrote:  
(02-03-2017 10:03 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I'm not cynical enough to think the term is intentionally exclusionary.

It's got less to do with being cynical and more with observation. I hear the term most often from the political or religious right. And the way it's used is always exclusionary. Such as judeo-christian heritage being the pillars of our societies and has to be preserved against the evils of Islam. Sometimes against secularity, but that doesn't happen that often. I never once heard it mentioned in a neutral fashion.

Like I said, I think it's more to do with ignorance of the connection than intentional exclusion. I'm not saying it's never used in an exclusionary fashion, but I don't think that's the more common reason.

I'd wager that the average right-wing Christian using the term wouldn't be able to answer basic questions about Islam and would be surprised to learn that muslims know of Jesus and like Jesus within their religion, as well as surprised to find that Mary is mentioned more times in the Qu'ran than the Bible.

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02-03-2017, 10:13 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
If you read the Quran, it's blatantly just stealing the Jewish/Christian God and writing new shit about it, pretending it was true all along.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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02-03-2017, 10:16 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(02-03-2017 10:13 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Like I said, I think it's more to do with ignorance of the connection than intentional exclusion. I'm not saying it's never used in an exclusionary fashion, but I don't think that's the more common reason.

As I said. Not going by my experience. The statement of course is ignorant, but I only heard it to compare it against something evil being out to destroy our judeo-christian values. I've yet to find any neutral statement that's only based on ignorance and not on exclusion.
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