Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
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02-03-2017, 11:37 AM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(02-03-2017 10:13 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  If you read the Quran, it's blatantly just stealing the Jewish/Christian God and writing new shit about it, pretending it was true all along.

Of course, Yawheh is just stolen from other previous mythologies anyway.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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02-03-2017, 04:52 PM (This post was last modified: 02-03-2017 04:56 PM by hecrow55.)
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(02-03-2017 07:06 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(02-03-2017 04:54 AM)hecrow55 Wrote:  I see many have been going to the same old argument that much of the OT has been proven false. I agree.

So you agree that all of the passages in the OT that prophesize the messiah are false?

You agree that the story of adam and eve, the "original sin" is false?

Interesting.

Your god is not real.
FBH
You missed the word much in my statement. I never said that I agree that all has been proven false.
As for as the prophecies contained within the OT, Jesus states that He came to fulfill them, not as fulfillment.
This means that it took deliberate action on His part to bring about the fulfillment of what was written concerning Him.

Smile
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02-03-2017, 05:23 PM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(02-03-2017 04:52 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  
(02-03-2017 07:06 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  So you agree that all of the passages in the OT that prophesize the messiah are false?

You agree that the story of adam and eve, the "original sin" is false?

Interesting.

Your god is not real.
FBH
You missed the word much in my statement. I never said that I agree that all has been proven false.
As for as the prophecies contained within the OT, Jesus states that He came to fulfill them, not as fulfillment.
This means that it took deliberate action on His part to bring about the fulfillment of what was written concerning Him.

Smile

And you illustrate that you do not understand the role of prophets in the OT.

The prophets' job was to tell the Israelites what they were doing wrong. It was not to predict the future.

Your god is not real.
FBH

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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02-03-2017, 05:30 PM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(02-03-2017 05:23 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(02-03-2017 04:52 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  You missed the word much in my statement. I never said that I agree that all has been proven false.
As for as the prophecies contained within the OT, Jesus states that He came to fulfill them, not as fulfillment.
This means that it took deliberate action on His part to bring about the fulfillment of what was written concerning Him.

Smile

And you illustrate that you do not understand the role of prophets in the OT.

The prophets' job was to tell the Israelites what they were doing wrong. It was not to predict the future.

Your god is not real.
FBH
I missed nothing. The prophets of the OT got it wrong. Jesus came to fulfill it and by doing so purged it.
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02-03-2017, 05:49 PM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
To properly present the evidence, I will be focusing on one particular statement of Jesus that He is the Prophet of whom Moses wrote of. Here is a synopsis of what it will be about.

The Promised Prophet – synopsis

The Bible is a collection of writings proclaimed to be the Word of God given to man through chosen people who are known as prophets. The argument against this being the truth is that it is simply books written by men based on superstitions, folk lore, politics and/or wishful thinking. The lack of the original writings, having to rely instead on copies from decades or centuries later, is used to support this argument. This along with historical records of how the books within the Bible were chosen and canonized by man is also used to try to falsify the claim of divine inspiration. But through the use of the scientific method, it is possible to strengthen the argument that God not only inspired these writings but was the guiding hand in the choosing, editing, and arrangement of the books contained within the Bible.

Ask a Question:

To begin this journey of enlightenment, one matter of interest is chosen for examination. Moses wrote of a Prophet who would be like himself that would come from the nation of Israel. Jesus states that Moses had written of Him.
Is Jesus the promised Prophet?

Do Background Research:

A general observation of the readily available evidence, such as: both men being called delivers; 4 books telling the story of each; missing years of adolescent; the slaughter of children when each were born; each one’s ministry containing commandments; etc.

Construct a Hypothesis:

Jesus is the promised Prophet of whom Moses wrote.

Test Your Hypothesis:

Falsification is a major factor in disproving or the refining of any hypothesis. Through a comparative study of the two men’s lives, testimonial evidence will be produced by revealing the not so openly apparent similarities between them, such as: the similar order of books; the parting of waters by each; water turned to blood; giving of law; and other such signs common to the two.

Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion

By gathering a massive amount empirical evidence, it will be possible to show that not only does this support the hypothesis strongly, but that it removes all other candidates from the possibility of being the promised Prophet.

Communicate Your Results

The study of scripture has but one purpose, to learn about Jesus. Focusing on this one subject will allow the disciple to have a more personal relationship with his/her spiritual Father. This is possible only through strict obedience to the protocol and following the evidence with an open mind to allow it alone to determine the conclusion. The findings will at times be a direct challenge and/or contradiction to what has been traditionally taught.

Will be posting the evidence that supports the hypothesis that Jesus is the Prophet that Moses spoke of.

Offered in the Love of Christ,
Harold Smile Smile Smile
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02-03-2017, 06:23 PM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(02-03-2017 05:49 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  Moses wrote of a Prophet who would be like himself that would come from the nation of Israel. Jesus states that Moses had written of Him.
Is Jesus the promised Prophet?

I assume you assert that Moses wrote "..." based on what you read in the OT, with the assumption that Moses wrote the OT.

Perhaps you could go back to the "Hebrew Bible" rather than the OT (Being a modified version with the NT in mind)

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Old_Testament
Quote:The Old Testament is not and should not be considered the same as the "Hebrew Bible", as it was edited, translated, and redacted by early Christians in order to align it with the "proof" that Jesus is the Messiah
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02-03-2017, 06:31 PM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(02-03-2017 06:23 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(02-03-2017 05:49 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  Moses wrote of a Prophet who would be like himself that would come from the nation of Israel. Jesus states that Moses had written of Him.
Is Jesus the promised Prophet?

I assume you assert that Moses wrote "..." based on what you read in the OT, with the assumption that Moses wrote the OT.

Perhaps you could go back to the "Hebrew Bible" rather than the OT (Being a modified version with the NT in mind)

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Old_Testament
Quote:The Old Testament is not and should not be considered the same as the "Hebrew Bible", as it was edited, translated, and redacted by early Christians in order to align it with the "proof" that Jesus is the Messiah

No. The only place that that is written is in Deuteronomy, the only book of Moses written in 1st person.

Deu 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; 16 According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. 17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. 18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
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02-03-2017, 07:17 PM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
The ancient texts of middle earth contain a prophecy that "the Halfling forth shall stand". It looks to me like we can use your same methodology to prove that Frodo was, in fact, the halfling that was spoken of.

You REALLY need to understand that you are attempting to prove the bible with the bible and that's pointless. Even if you could show that the later stories were entirely consistent with the earlier ones all you'd have shown is that the later authors didn't take too many liberties when writing their parts. Fan fiction can be consistent and still not be true.

You've attempted to drape a veneer of science over your presuppositions and fallacies and it really doesn't fit. What you are doing is not science.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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02-03-2017, 07:59 PM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(02-03-2017 05:49 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  To properly present the evidence, I will be focusing on one particular statement of Jesus that He is the Prophet of whom Moses wrote of. Here is a synopsis of what it will be about.

"properly present evidence"??? What evidence???

As other posters have already told you:

YOU CANNOT USE THE BIBLE TO PROVE THE BIBLE.

Even worse, you don't even have the integrity to tell us which bible you are using!

Not only will you not give scientific evidence for your god, you won't even let us examine the texts that you do claim as evidence.

And moses was a composite figure, if not outright fictitious There is about as much actual evidence for moses as there is for King Arthur.

You are attempting, clumsily, to wrap your apologetics in science.

It. Will. Not. Work.

Your god is not real.
FBH

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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02-03-2017, 09:24 PM
RE: Can the study of scripture be done in a scientific way?
(01-03-2017 07:21 PM)hecrow55 Wrote:  Question: Is the doctrine of Jesus the truth as He declares it to be?

Test: Can any of the sayings of Jesus be proved to be a lie?

The Red Letters are the only thing worth reading in the whole goddamned New Testament. Problem is most Christians don't have a clue how to read them.

#sigh
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