Can this belief that I have be proven to be impossible
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20-12-2013, 06:24 PM
RE: Can this belief that I have be proven to be impossible
(20-12-2013 10:50 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  
(20-12-2013 05:08 AM)Dustybite Wrote:  Hello everyone. I have this belief and was thinking if there are any reasons (either scientific or philosophical) that may cause this belief of mine to be confirmed as impossible.

My belief is that , similar to quantum entanglement, whenever we develop our consciousness in the brain, there will be an immortal part of it that will be made in an afterlife (if one exists) but won't be activated until our death when we will die and our immortal consciousness will be "activated".

Is there any scientific theory/ law or any philosophical ideas that will disprove this belief of mine and make it impossible?

Im not sure if this should be here or in the philosohy section

Well, let's see.

First, we could prove that quantum entanglement don't work like that. Not a central statement, but something that could be disproven.

Beyond that, need a clearer definition of terms. Give me your precise definition of death... and also of what elements of consciousness would be mirrored in this reproduction of yours.

What do you mean quantum entanglement doesn't work the way I said it did?
And what do you mean by elements that would be reproduced?
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20-12-2013, 06:29 PM
RE: Can this belief that I have be proven to be impossible
(20-12-2013 12:23 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(20-12-2013 05:08 AM)Dustybite Wrote:  Hello everyone. I have this belief and was thinking if there are any reasons (either scientific or philosophical) that may cause this belief of mine to be confirmed as impossible.

My belief is that , similar to quantum entanglement, whenever we develop our consciousness in the brain, there will be an immortal part of it that will be made in an afterlife (if one exists) but won't be activated until our death when we will die and our immortal consciousness will be "activated".

Is there any scientific theory/ law or any philosophical ideas that will disprove this belief of mine and make it impossible?

Im not sure if this should be here or in the philosohy section

Clearly you know next to nothing of Neuro-physiology, or brain chemistry.
Please explain how in ANY way this is "similar" to quantum entanglement.
Anything is possible. So no, no one can prove(disprove) a negative. The enterprise is meaningless. However you can't disprove there is a 1957 CHevy orbiting Pluto, or that there is a teapot orbiting the sun. The probabilities of your theory, and the last two are relatively similar, (ie *zero*). Weeping

It's still possible though.

When I say quantum entanglement I mean that both "parts" of your consciousness are formed at the same time so there no delay that will make a transporter paradox
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20-12-2013, 06:31 PM
RE: Can this belief that I have be proven to be impossible
(20-12-2013 12:04 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Well, when you get your philosophy from Deepak Chopra... Dodgy

The mistake here is assuming consciousness to be an action when in fact it is nearly certainly a reaction - to environment. So the obvious question would be, what is the environment of afterlife?

Can you explain to me more about consciousness being an environment factor?
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20-12-2013, 08:14 PM
RE: Can this belief that I have be proven to be impossible
(20-12-2013 06:31 PM)Dustybite Wrote:  
(20-12-2013 12:04 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Well, when you get your philosophy from Deepak Chopra... Dodgy

The mistake here is assuming consciousness to be an action when in fact it is nearly certainly a reaction - to environment. So the obvious question would be, what is the environment of afterlife?

Can you explain to me more about consciousness being an environment factor?

Uh-oh!

Noob asks HoC to elucidate.

Noob gets this answer:
[Image: Gwyneth-Paltrow-Celeb.jpg]

Sigh! I remember when I was that innocent.
Less than two years ago but it seems like a lifetime.

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21-12-2013, 03:47 AM
RE: Can this belief that I have be proven to be impossible
(20-12-2013 08:14 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(20-12-2013 06:31 PM)Dustybite Wrote:  Can you explain to me more about consciousness being an environment factor?

Uh-oh!

Noob asks HoC to elucidate.

Noob gets this answer:
[Image: Gwyneth-Paltrow-Celeb.jpg]

Sigh! I remember when I was that innocent.
Less than two years ago but it seems like a lifetime.

But it's a good answer, you gotta admit Big Grin

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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21-12-2013, 05:17 AM
RE: Can this belief that I have be proven to be impossible
(20-12-2013 06:31 PM)Dustybite Wrote:  
(20-12-2013 12:04 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Well, when you get your philosophy from Deepak Chopra... Dodgy

The mistake here is assuming consciousness to be an action when in fact it is nearly certainly a reaction - to environment. So the obvious question would be, what is the environment of afterlife?

Can you explain to me more about consciousness being an environment factor?

It's six in the morning and I'm awake because my body was done sleeping. Filling in white space with a bunch of words to satisfy the human requirement of socialization. Restate answers to questions already realized because another wishes to know. And! I love my Gwynnies! Big Grin

But all of that is reaction to the restlessness of living.

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21-12-2013, 06:27 AM
RE: Can this belief that I have be proven to be impossible
See, Dusty?

That's what you get.

(21-12-2013 05:17 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  ...
I'm awake because my body was done sleeping.

Filling in white space with a bunch of words to satisfy the human requirement of socialization.
...

... a realisation that we are merely responding to our environment ...

Or the shock that we are merely the temporary arrangement of biochemical stuff on a long continuum from:
physics --> to --> chemistry --> to --> biology --> to --> chemistry again

... a terrifying and exhilarating sense of your own mortality.

But it is not without hope... I leave you with this HoC masterpiece:

" 'Love is merely chemistry'
... is a deception.
We are merely chemistry.
Love makes us master chemists."


Therefore: Gwynnies!

Thumbsup

Now don't say, in future, that I didn't warn you.

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21-12-2013, 09:40 AM
RE: Can this belief that I have be proven to be impossible
Why would quantum physics be related to that belief in the first place?
In case it's reassuring for you, your components will "live" forever. In the same way that we're made from water and the dust of stars.
From which you could just as easily assert that previous lives are possible. Except it's not what physics says.
And yes, maybe, at some point, all of the same components that make you be you have made an egyptian princess and a lion. It's however infinitely more likely not to have happened.
And no, you can't disprove past lives the way I've described it either. Thing is there's no practical need or application for this assertion any more than there's a practical need or application for your belief.
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21-12-2013, 11:23 AM
RE: Can this belief that I have be proven to be impossible
(20-12-2013 05:08 AM)Dustybite Wrote:  Hello everyone. I have this belief and was thinking if there are any reasons (either scientific or philosophical) that may cause this belief of mine to be confirmed as impossible.

My belief is that , similar to quantum entanglement, whenever we develop our consciousness in the brain, there will be an immortal part of it that will be made in an afterlife (if one exists) but won't be activated until our death when we will die and our immortal consciousness will be "activated".

Is there any scientific theory/ law or any philosophical ideas that will disprove this belief of mine and make it impossible?

Im not sure if this should be here or in the philosohy section

[Image: tumblr_m2n7hoaRdd1r3k1m8o1_500.png]


(20-12-2013 09:59 AM)Dustybite Wrote:  
(20-12-2013 08:53 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Yup. Seems legit.

I guess that the fact that when your brain dies your consciousness goes with it, might be a small hurdle but don't worry about that.

Start working on a test that can prove it possible and we'll go from there, shall we?

Oh! and welcome to the madhouse. Thumbsup

ps. yes, this is probably the wrong section... the existence or nonexistence of some form of afterlife does not lead naturally to there being (or not being) any supernatural entities.

Well I addressed the fact of the current part consciousness. It stops but your immortal part of it continues to go on forever


Do you know what a 'fact' is?

Fact
/fakt/
noun
1 - A thing that is indisputably the case.


In case you missed it there, your original post contains zero facts; just plenty of subjective baseless assertions.



(20-12-2013 06:24 PM)Dustybite Wrote:  
(20-12-2013 10:50 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  Well, let's see.

First, we could prove that quantum entanglement don't work like that. Not a central statement, but something that could be disproven.

Beyond that, need a clearer definition of terms. Give me your precise definition of death... and also of what elements of consciousness would be mirrored in this reproduction of yours.

What do you mean quantum entanglement doesn't work the way I said it did?
And what do you mean by elements that would be reproduced?

Dude, do they not have Google or Wikipedia in your part of the internet or something?


"Quantum entanglement is a product of quantum superposition. However, the state of each member is indefinite in terms of physical properties such as position, momentum, spin, polarization, etc. in a manner distinct from the intrinsic uncertainty of quantum superposition. When a measurement is made on one member of an entangled pair and the outcome is thus known (e.g., clockwise spin), the other member of the pair is at any subsequent time always found (when measured) to have taken the appropriately correlated value (e.g., counterclockwise spin). There is thus a correlation between the results of measurements performed on entangled pairs, and this correlation is observed even though the entangled pair may be separated by arbitrarily large distances. Repeated experiments have verified that this works even when the measurements are performed more quickly than light could travel between the sites of measurement: there is no lightspeed or slower influence that can pass between the entangled particles. Recent experiments have measured entangled particles within less than one part in 10,000 of the light travel time between them; according to the formalism of quantum theory, the effect of measurement happens instantly."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_entanglement


So it would seem to me, that even assuming this at can all be related to your brain (and it's emergent consciousness), the entangled counterpart would work in opposition instead of unison. Not only that, but there is nothing to indicate that the 'entangled' half would continue on functioning after you have died. At best you could potentially have a copy of your brain that mirrors how your brain operates, and changes to one would affect the other simultaneously even if separated by a space so far that it cannot be bridged by information moving at the speed of light over the same distance. However this would just mean that whenever your brain ceases to function at death, the other brain would also cease to function at the exact same time, even if they were separated by light-years worth of distance. That appears to be how quantum entanglement would work in this scenario.



(20-12-2013 06:29 PM)Dustybite Wrote:  
(20-12-2013 12:23 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Clearly you know next to nothing of Neuro-physiology, or brain chemistry.
Please explain how in ANY way this is "similar" to quantum entanglement.
Anything is possible. So no, no one can prove(disprove) a negative. The enterprise is meaningless. However you can't disprove there is a 1957 CHevy orbiting Pluto, or that there is a teapot orbiting the sun. The probabilities of your theory, and the last two are relatively similar, (ie *zero*). Weeping

It's still possible though.

When I say quantum entanglement I mean that both "parts" of your consciousness are formed at the same time so there no delay that will make a transporter paradox


pos·si·ble
/ˈpäsəbəl/
adjective
1 - Able to be done; within the power or capacity of someone or something.


Now for comparison's sake, here is another word you don't seem terribly familiar with.


prob·a·ble
/ˈpräbəbəl/
adjective
1 - Likely to be the case or to happen.


So possibility is not the same as probability, they are not synonymous. It is possible that I am the Queen of England, but it is not very probable. To move an assertion out of the realm of possibility and into probability requires evidence, which have have yet to produce. Thus your assertions are entirely improbable, regardless of whether or not they are allowed by our current scientific understanding.



(20-12-2013 06:31 PM)Dustybite Wrote:  
(20-12-2013 12:04 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Well, when you get your philosophy from Deepak Chopra... Dodgy

The mistake here is assuming consciousness to be an action when in fact it is nearly certainly a reaction - to environment. So the obvious question would be, what is the environment of afterlife?

Can you explain to me more about consciousness being an environment factor?


Before you start positing quantum entanglement and other woo-woo bullshit, you might want to have a firmer grasp on how consciousness evidently works and arises in the here and now.

Thank you for playing, but I award you zero points.

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22-12-2013, 01:55 AM
RE: Can this belief that I have be proven to be impossible
(21-12-2013 11:23 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Thank you for playing, but I award you zero points.
And may God have mercy on your soul. Laughat

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