Can we know anything for sure?
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17-09-2016, 06:16 PM
RE: Can we know anything for sure?
So much useful material here so far, wow. Wasn't expecting so many replies. Big Grin

Really good stuff. Really most of my problems seem to be caused by my pesky aversion to saying "I don't know". I've been conditioned to think of that as an admission of failure.

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17-09-2016, 06:24 PM
RE: Can we know anything for sure?
Know for sure? I don't know, for sure. But I have a reasonable enough grasp on the world that I'm able to function in my version of it pretty well, most of the time.
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17-09-2016, 07:00 PM
RE: Can we know anything for sure?
(17-09-2016 06:16 PM)ErinRH2342 Wrote:  So much useful material here so far, wow. Wasn't expecting so many replies. Big Grin

Really good stuff. Really most of my problems seem to be caused by my pesky aversion to saying "I don't know". I've been conditioned to think of that as an admission of failure.

Sometime saying "I don't know...... yet" is a more truthful, powerful answer. Theists claim they have it all figured out, that god is the first cause, god is the answer and questioning this explanation is sinful and evil so the door is always closed. When you say " I don't know yet" it denotes an active, open, positive searching for the answer and you won't settle until it's proven to be correct.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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18-09-2016, 02:26 AM
RE: Can we know anything for sure?
At work.

I have always thought of the "Brain in a vat" question a lot like the encounter where Dr Who has to ask one question of two robots (Dressed as Egyptian mummies) so that the answer frees a trapped Sarah Jane so that they can continue and destroy the evil Sutek.

One robot always lies, the other always tells ths truth.

So...... if 'You' are a brain in a vat.... then the other 'person' posing the question to you about your 'Vat-ness' must, by default, be 'Not real'.... hence the whole question is false.

Big Grin

Did I do good with my thinking/reasoning/explaining?
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18-09-2016, 02:51 AM
RE: Can we know anything for sure?
(17-09-2016 06:16 PM)ErinRH2342 Wrote:  Really most of my problems seem to be caused by my pesky aversion to saying "I don't know". I've been conditioned to think of that as an admission of failure.


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18-09-2016, 03:33 AM
RE: Can we know anything for sure?
The question for me is, is it *useful*. I experience a reality. By talking to other people I establish a. some aspects of reality they see differently to me b. some aspects are shared. The shared stuff I term objective, the different stuff I term subjective. I have a certain faith that the objective stuff is something external to myself and that the subjective stuff is due to my limited ability to experience the world. Through careful thought over centuries people have figured out ways to investigate the objective stuff, the body of which constitutes the scientific method.

One of the features of the reality each of us experiences seems to be that we cannot know things for sure. This is hardly surprising. We're monkeys stuck on a rock in a gravity well orbiting a nuclear furnace in the middle of nowhere. The fact that we can figure *anything* out with any confidence is pretty incredible already. To figure something out with absolute confidence would be quite a party trick.

As an example consider something trivial, like "throw a stone out of a window, it must fall" - in fact we don't really *know* that that is true. But it's so damn close to true that it hardly matters for any practical purpose, to consider the case where one defenstrates a geological specimen and it does not, in fact, plummet to the ground.

Asking if underlying all that is a vast simulation system to me just doesn't seem that useful. This is the reality I experience.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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18-09-2016, 05:45 AM
RE: Can we know anything for sure?
(18-09-2016 02:51 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(17-09-2016 06:16 PM)ErinRH2342 Wrote:  Really most of my problems seem to be caused by my pesky aversion to saying "I don't know". I've been conditioned to think of that as an admission of failure.


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Laugh out load

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18-09-2016, 06:01 AM
RE: Can we know anything for sure?
This might be of interest to you, OP: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%BCnchhausen_trilemma

(17-09-2016 05:47 PM)Chas Wrote:  Seriously, though, I'm a pragmatist so I really don't care. I can be sure enough.
I echo this sentiment
echo this sentiment
echo this sentiment
echo this sentiment

Tongue

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18-09-2016, 06:04 AM
RE: Can we know anything for sure?
(17-09-2016 05:47 PM)Chas Wrote:  Seriously, though, I'm a pragmatist so I really don't care. I can be sure enough.

Shit makes me a 7 and fuck that aggie bs. Tongue

(17-09-2016 06:16 PM)ErinRH2342 Wrote:  I've been conditioned to think of that as an admission of failure.

Time for some reconditioning. Angel

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18-09-2016, 06:04 AM
RE: Can we know anything for sure?
Its like a jigsaw.

If a piece (Information) fits into the jigsaw (your beliefs and personal biases) then it adds to the overall picture and can be accepted.

Its only your picture in the jigsaw though, maybe others can see parts of it but only you yourself can see the entirety of it.

The picture is transient though, it changes overtime.

We can all 'know' things. Does not make any of them as 'true' though.

I feel so much, and yet I feel nothing.
I am a rock, I am the sky, the birds and the trees and everything beyond.
I am the wind, in the fields in which I roar. I am the water, in which I drown.
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