Can we stop blaming Trump?
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23-03-2017, 11:56 AM
RE: Can we stop blaming Trump?
(23-03-2017 11:25 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(23-03-2017 10:03 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Same way our new HHS director Tom "Everyone's Got A" Price did it. Insider stock trading and land value manipulation based on the expected regulation/deregulation effects before anyone else even knows about them.

The regulators as well as the deregulators can make money cheating on the stock market.

Most law makers can.

It's kind of interesting, some of the prejudices Alla has been taught are new to me.

Probably even experienced, I think the way she describes the government is very likely a proper representation of how the USSR and now Russian government works. The more I read about these oligarchs and Putin and various shenanigans the more I can appreciate why Alla may think the way she does. I pray to the Bob and all that is holy that the US does not continue down that well-trodden but ultimately dead-end path. Marcus Aurelius Putin and Trump are not.

#sigh
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23-03-2017, 12:48 PM
RE: Can we stop blaming Trump?
(23-03-2017 10:41 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(23-03-2017 10:23 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I can't see this happening with the EPA, given the amount of hate the congressional prime-donors have for that institution. Anyone at the EPA who tried what Price did would get crucified. Cronyism is only safe for those who make money for their fellow high powered insiders.

What? Of course there is somebody at the EPA who's going to do the exact same things Price did - Scott Pruitt.

Are you trying to be funny by pretending to be dense?

Because what you just said isn't a response to what I said.

The appointments now being made under Trump are not like the system I've been describing (and Alla has been decrying). They are being redesigned to allow his business allies/cronies in, that they might rig the system in favor of big businesses.

The reason the EPA could not do what Alla was proposing, before, was because the people who have financial interest in not being hit by EPA regulations would have had someone who played games with it crucified. Thus my answer.

Scott Pruitt is playing their game. He's not what I'm talking about, and honestly I'm a little pissed off at you for trying to act like you could just throw his name out there to debunk what I said before. Not cool.

I hope you just didn't realize what I was talking about, because if you think it's funny to undermine my argument in a way that will be difficult to untangle for someone like Alla (to whom I am trying to explain how this works), you're an ass.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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23-03-2017, 12:51 PM
RE: Can we stop blaming Trump?
(23-03-2017 12:48 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(23-03-2017 10:41 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  What? Of course there is somebody at the EPA who's going to do the exact same things Price did - Scott Pruitt.

Are you trying to be funny by pretending to be dense?

I've been making the point that career civil servants are subject to different ethical standards than political appointees. What point do you think I'm trying to make? Because apparently I have been unclear.

#sigh
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23-03-2017, 12:52 PM
RE: Can we stop blaming Trump?
(23-03-2017 11:25 AM)Dom Wrote:  The regulators as well as the deregulators can make money cheating on the stock market.

Most law makers can.

And as a trained soldier, I *can* kill someone. Doesn't make it the norm, or mean that I'm a murderer. It certainly doesn't mean that someone questioning the institution of the military can rightly say "Well, you're capable of killing!" as part of an argument to undermine the integrity of a person in the military.

That's what Alla (or rather, her propagandists) are suggesting, here. They're saying that the EPA has an ulterior motive, and thus the people who work there are really trying to over-regulate our businesses so they can get an unfair/bigger cut of the pie. That's just slander against the EPA.

Is it possible? Sure. Is it a valid anti-liberal argument against the EPA, and a valid excuse for Trump to tear it down or otherwise cripple the organization? No.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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23-03-2017, 01:35 PM
RE: Can we stop blaming Trump?
RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:On a quick Google search, the only thing I can find that might be related to your point is an article about how he flies around the world in a private jet while preaching a "green" lifestyle. (So I'll comment on that; if I'm wrong, ignore the following.)
Thanks, this is what I was talking about. I liked your analogy about Wild West. It makes lots of sense.
I read the article about EPA. I think they did and do very important work. I love Mother Earth and She needs good care. It is only in our own interests.
You say that we are not overregulated nation. May be it is true but I don't know. Is there any way for me to know for myself, to check who says the truth? Probably not.
I also want to tell you that I am blessed that I don't have to drink city water because I have my own well and water is so delicious. I am blessed that I don't live in a city where the air is not as fresh as in the country. If I am not wrong they call Idaho "lungs of the USA" because of the air. Should I thank EPA for this? Or is this because Idaho had low population?
I also want to talk to you about climate change. Are we(humans) responsible for it?

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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23-03-2017, 02:09 PM
RE: Can we stop blaming Trump?
Alla, study the history of the large mines in Idaho. They are a source of major pollution of all kinds, and the EPA has been instrumental in improving that situation. The reality is, your tasty well water has been contaminated to a large extent by industry in "wide open" Idaho.
Sometimes the EPA has it's shortcomings too.
http://www.newsweek.com/2016/06/24/bunke...69222.html

Some water pollution news from mining in Idaho.
http://idahostatejournal.com/outdoors/xt...5aa29.html

http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/boise/201...pollution/

http://missoulian.com/news/state-and-reg...002e0.html

I happen to live next door in Washington and do go camping in Idaho.
IMO this is no time to reduce the EPA's budget.
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23-03-2017, 02:15 PM (This post was last modified: 23-03-2017 02:24 PM by Thoreauvian.)
RE: Can we stop blaming Trump?
(23-03-2017 01:35 PM)Alla Wrote:  I also want to talk to you about climate change. Are we(humans) responsible for it?

Yes.

Here is a good source of general information: https://climate.nasa.gov/

Also, Kaneda started a climate change discussion. You could read certain information there as well.

Smile
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23-03-2017, 04:12 PM
RE: Can we stop blaming Trump?
(23-03-2017 02:09 PM)skyking Wrote:  Alla, study the history of the large mines in Idaho. They are a source of major pollution of all kinds, and the EPA has been instrumental in improving that situation. The reality is, your tasty well water has been contaminated to a large extent by industry in "wide open" Idaho.
Sometimes the EPA has it's shortcomings too.
http://www.newsweek.com/2016/06/24/bunke...69222.html

Some water pollution news from mining in Idaho.
http://idahostatejournal.com/outdoors/xt...5aa29.html

http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/boise/201...pollution/

http://missoulian.com/news/state-and-reg...002e0.html

I happen to live next door in Washington and do go camping in Idaho.
IMO this is no time to reduce the EPA's budget.

I know about mines. My husband knows a man from Idaho City, he told my husband about mines, gold.
My husband was helping Russ Fulcher to run for the governor of Idaho, I think in 2015. Fulcher lost to Otter but he will run again. He wants to fight for the land(take it back from the feds) and I think they want to open those mines again. I think they want to take advantage of the natural sources we have here in Idaho. Is it possible to use sources and still make sure it doesn't affect water and air too badly?
Let me read your links.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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23-03-2017, 04:12 PM
RE: Can we stop blaming Trump?
(23-03-2017 02:15 PM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  
(23-03-2017 01:35 PM)Alla Wrote:  I also want to talk to you about climate change. Are we(humans) responsible for it?

Yes.

Here is a good source of general information: https://climate.nasa.gov/

Also, Kaneda started a climate change discussion. You could read certain information there as well.

Smile
Thanks, I will read.

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SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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23-03-2017, 04:17 PM
RE: Can we stop blaming Trump?
With oversight yes, but that's not what the entrepeneurs want to do. Oversight = more big government meddling. Without the feds looking out for us, it is a disaster waiting to happen.
People get all worked up about state's rights and the big bad feds, but that's all that stands between you and some really nasty crap happening in your backyard. If one state is lax, it will pay tor truck the nasties to there from everywhere else. Only the folks at the top of the heap will profit from that.
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