Can you believe this?!
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14-04-2013, 09:16 AM
RE: Can you believe this?!
I was consciously trying to adopt a propaganda tone - looks like I succeeded Big Grin

I also thought you were asking a rhetorical question...

So you were responding to my "says a lot" statement by asking "what does it say?" in other words ?

I think it says the industry's got big influence on those who pass the laws, either because those who pass the laws are themselves involved in the industry or because the industry spends money on lobbying them.

And I think that the nature of the laws themselves seem to show that the industry is up to no good, because if everything was all above board, no one in industry would be worried about people making inspections authorized or not and there'd be no need for these laws.
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14-04-2013, 09:18 AM
RE: Can you believe this?!
(14-04-2013 09:14 AM)bbeljefe Wrote:  
(14-04-2013 09:00 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Monsanto is no different from the investment firms that got Glass Steagall over turned at the end of the last millenium.

(14-04-2013 01:40 AM)morondog Wrote:  The fact that these guys are trying to pass laws protecting themselves~


Notice any similarities in the above?

Yes it's a systemic problem and I outlined the only solution shy of armed revolt. Any industry that makes enough money to make it worthwhile to bend public policy to it's will is going to follow that playbook. The problem here is the Check and balance to this is the American people actually voting.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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14-04-2013, 11:54 AM
RE: Can you believe this?!
If I may suggest, actually voting intelligently. So many of the US public is twisted by belief in bad data it is quite depressing.

In California in the last election there was a proposition (35 if I remember correctly) that would require foods that were GMO's to be so labeled. Much food industry money was spent and the proposition failed.

The basic premise of the food industry was that this would be very costly for the industry and therefore consumers. The slightest bit of thought and one knows this is totally untrue. A few extra letters on a can or box, the label on a tofu container would have to have GMO on it. The argument of the food industry was so spurious as to be laughable. It still worked. If you spend enough money you can sell anything to americans, sad.
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14-04-2013, 12:06 PM
RE: Can you believe this?!
(14-04-2013 11:54 AM)JAH Wrote:  If I may suggest, actually voting intelligently. So many of the US public is twisted by belief in bad data it is quite depressing.

In California in the last election there was a proposition (35 if I remember correctly) that would require foods that were GMO's to be so labeled. Much food industry money was spent and the proposition failed.

The basic premise of the food industry was that this would be very costly for the industry and therefore consumers. The slightest bit of thought and one knows this is totally untrue. A few extra letters on a can or box, the label on a tofu container would have to have GMO on it. The argument of the food industry was so spurious as to be laughable. It still worked. If you spend enough money you can sell anything to americans, sad.

The problem here is Low Information Voters, or as I like to refer to them the dumbasses that are screwing this country up. Now I don't know if this is the case everywhere (though I suspect it is) but about a week or 2 before the election I get mail a sample of the ballot sheet with everything to be voted on including all candidates resolutions and amendments. I then go through it check off how I am planning on voting and if anything is confusing or poorly worded I go to the internet and see what the legalese translates to in english. All told this takes me about 10 minutes and then when I go to actually vote I know exactly what I am voting for and why.

The LIV's on the other hand can't be fucked to look at a newspaper or turn off cartoons long enough to know who is running even in the big national races let alone what's going on locally. These are the people that are being taken in by the big ad campaigns and why so much money is being spent in elections.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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14-04-2013, 01:08 PM
RE: Can you believe this?!
(14-04-2013 09:16 AM)morondog Wrote:  So you were responding to my "says a lot" statement by asking "what does it say?" in other words ?

LOL. No. I was asking exactly what I asked. What does it say about the people who pass the laws?

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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14-04-2013, 01:10 PM
RE: Can you believe this?!
(14-04-2013 09:18 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(14-04-2013 09:14 AM)bbeljefe Wrote:  Notice any similarities in the above?

Yes it's a systemic problem and I outlined the only solution shy of armed revolt. Any industry that makes enough money to make it worthwhile to bend public policy to it's will is going to follow that playbook. The problem here is the Check and balance to this is the American people actually voting.

What's a systemic problem? And what similarities are there in those two statements?

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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14-04-2013, 02:24 PM
RE: Can you believe this?!
Dude you've lost me completely. I feel like you're speaking another language to me. There seems to be something blindingly obvious that I'm missing.

Unless you're just torturing me Weeping

But I thought I *had* given you an opinion on what I thought could be said about those who passed the law...

i.e. that either they had a vested interest or someone with a vested interest and deep pockets influenced them.

I'm not sure what you're looking for here ?
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14-04-2013, 03:18 PM
RE: Can you believe this?!
(14-04-2013 01:10 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  
(14-04-2013 09:18 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Yes it's a systemic problem and I outlined the only solution shy of armed revolt. Any industry that makes enough money to make it worthwhile to bend public policy to it's will is going to follow that playbook. The problem here is the Check and balance to this is the American people actually voting.

What's a systemic problem? And what similarities are there in those two statements?

Special Interest groups trumping what is good for the public. I thought I was fairly clear on this, but my entire point was that these SI's usually all but write the laws governing the regulation of their businesses so as competition by new firms is reduced (or eliminated) and that what they are doing is either approved of (or when it is blatantly illegal overlooked). I then explained what the motivation was for the Politicians doing this (money both during and after their time in office) and the only solution to the problem (Informed Voting).

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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14-04-2013, 03:41 PM
RE: Can you believe this?!
(14-04-2013 02:24 PM)morondog Wrote:  Dude you've lost me completely. I feel like you're speaking another language to me. There seems to be something blindingly obvious that I'm missing.

Unless you're just torturing me Weeping

But I thought I *had* given you an opinion on what I thought could be said about those who passed the law...

i.e. that either they had a vested interest or someone with a vested interest and deep pockets influenced them.

I'm not sure what you're looking for here ?

What you gave me is what that says about their actions. In other words, what they did. I was looking for what that says about them, personally. I've been an American for 44 years... I know what they do. Big Grin

This may be easier for you... what does enacting these laws say about the integrity of the people who own those farms?

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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14-04-2013, 04:25 PM
RE: Can you believe this?!
(14-04-2013 03:18 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Special Interest groups trumping what is good for the public. I thought I was fairly clear on this, but my entire point was that these SI's usually all but write the laws governing the regulation of their businesses so as competition by new firms is reduced (or eliminated) and that what they are doing is either approved of (or when it is blatantly illegal overlooked). I then explained what the motivation was for the Politicians doing this (money both during and after their time in office) and the only solution to the problem (Informed Voting).

Gotcha. And how are the two posts I quoted above (one from you and one from morondog) similar?

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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