Can you give me scientific references to mass loss during the pass over?
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18-08-2016, 12:41 AM (This post was last modified: 18-08-2016 01:06 AM by theBorg.)
RE: Can you give me scientific references to mass loss during the pass over?
(17-08-2016 12:24 PM)Gloucester Wrote:  What you say sounds more like the conservstion of energy, where mass is energy in another form... the electricity gets dissipated as heat,
Dear Scientist, the case is simple: state number 1: human body has mass M. State number 2: human body (together with all the leaked out fluids and gases) has mass m. Thus, the energy, which would be released into surroundings is M c^2 - m c^2. Therefore, the entire USA would be blown away. Why then not?
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18-08-2016, 12:59 AM
RE: Can you give me scientific references to mass loss during the pass over?
(17-08-2016 08:59 PM)Aliza Wrote:  If you are not capable of doing this, then you really shouldn’t be here trying to represent your religion.
Dear Jewish woman, you believe, that True God exists. I believe, that True God exists. Is this bad? I am polite enough: "Can you give me scientific references to mass loss during the pass over?" I am asking not for silly-looking debates, I am asking for the links to verified research papers.
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18-08-2016, 02:44 AM
RE: Can you give me scientific references to mass loss during the pass over?
(18-08-2016 12:59 AM)theBorg Wrote:  ...... I am polite enough: "Can you give me scientific references to mass loss during the pass over?" I am asking not for silly-looking debates, I am asking for the links to verified research papers.

Polite, yes. Coherent? Not so much.

There are no 'Links' to give since what you ask is simply wrong/garbage.

What you have offered is simply rubbish. It's trash. Claims like this have been around for, I would hazard a guess, centuries.

However, as science and our methods for detecting things has only ever increased things like "Soul' and 'Spirit' and 'Deity' have receded ever further into the corners and margins of the world we know about.

Have a nice day believing in you pixies at the bottom of the garden. Thumbsup
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18-08-2016, 02:49 AM (This post was last modified: 18-08-2016 02:58 AM by Gloucester.)
RE: Can you give me scientific references to mass loss during the pass over?
(18-08-2016 12:41 AM)theBorg Wrote:  
(17-08-2016 12:24 PM)Gloucester Wrote:  What you say sounds more like the conservstion of energy, where mass is energy in another form... the electricity gets dissipated as heat,
Dear Scientist, the case is simple: state number 1: human body has mass M. State number 2: human body (together with all the leaked out fluids and gases) has mass m. Thus, the energy, which would be released into surroundings is M c^2 - m c^2. Therefore, the entire USA would be blown away. Why then not?
I don't quite know how to address your ignorance, dear Ignoramous, in terms you might understand.

Whilst it is true that all matter has the ability to be converted into energy, via Albert's famous formula, the conditions under which the conversion may occur are not present in the everyday world. The best example is the so-called ''hydrogen bomb''. In that device a small volume of tritium, a radioactive isotype of hydrogen, is contained in the very centre of a good, old fashioned ''atom bomb'', a fission device where nuclei release energy as they are split. Being at the centre of this explosion the tritium gets incredible pressure and heat from all round, conditions similar to that at the centre of the Sun.

This causes fusion of the tritium, as it does with hydrogen in the Sun, the forcing of the nuclei together and, again as it does in the Sun, the release of a huge amout of energy. Not total conversion because there are by-products of the reaction that have their own energy content.

So, rather than a nice warm hospital ward, bedroom or an icy street corner - or any place that living creatures normally die, one needs a very unusual set of conditions to achieve the results of Albert's formula. Sorry, but e=mc^2 has nothing to do with energy release at death, as I said, any energy sources in the body will convert to other energy forms due to the ''ordinary'', every day physics that we are all prone to suffer from. Relativistic physics only apply in relativistic conditions. It is the difference between the relativistic e=mc^2 and the everyday e=mv^2/2. The kinetic energy difference between a vehicle doing the speed of light and one travelling at 50mph is, er, considerable.

Though the latter is not quite a direct parallel it does illustrate scale of the errors in your ideas.

Now, take a pig with the same body mass as a human and, as we know, many genetic and physiological characteristics in common, have your ''scientists'' checked to see if a similar ''loss of weight'' occurs on piggie's death?

And I am no scientist, just a bloke who is interested in science and tries to get it straight in his head by getting corroboration from more than one source.
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18-08-2016, 04:22 AM
RE: Can you give me scientific references to mass loss during the pass over?
Now, having a think about the OP , whilst ironing a shirt for going out to lunch, I did a quick thought experiment to work out how to detect any total loss in mass from a human body at the point of death. The ethics may be dicey.

This is a la methode Lavoisier. First obtain a person within hours of death. Place him or her in a chamber. This chamber must be hermatically sealed , totally insulated against the ingress or egress of energy in any form. It must have an enviroment, atmosphere, temperature etc, that is fully controllable, stablilised and monitorable and under no external influence.

Place this chamber, and its contents, on a balance that can measure its weight very precisely. Monitor the local level of gravity in order to determine the mass, though this may not be necessary, it is a ratio we are looking for, not an absolute.

Recording all possible variables wait for the person to die.

I would bet a $1000 that the weight/mass of the whole set-up, including the mass equivalent of energy in non-solid form emitted from the body, does not change at any point, in fact I would postulate that there would be no weight/mass change if you kept the experimental integrity, for as long as you cared to record. Oh, sorry, there may be losses or gains from the changes in the external surfaces of the chamber. That could be reduced by placing it, and the scales, in yet another chamber and evacuating the space between before starting.

This would indicate that there are no losses from the ''system'' represented by the human body that cannot be accounted for.

Right, all we need now is a few million dollars to get started!
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18-08-2016, 05:49 AM
RE: Can you give me scientific references to mass loss during the pass over?
Have you considered that the chamber might trap the soul, and thus throw off the results while you're measuring for its loss?

Aha! I have beaten you with the power of woo-woo! Wink

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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18-08-2016, 10:14 AM (This post was last modified: 18-08-2016 10:55 AM by Gloucester.)
RE: Can you give me scientific references to mass loss during the pass over?
(18-08-2016 05:49 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Have you considered that the chamber might trap the soul, and thus throw off the results while you're measuring for its loss?

Aha! I have beaten you with the power of woo-woo! Wink
Ah, but...

That depends on the mode of transmission of the putative ''soul''. Does it ''transmit'' via electromagnetic radiation (by conversion of that mass to electricity in some form that radiates, say), does it radiate, convect or conduct as heat, does it evaporate from some volatile component of immediate death . . . Or is it's transmission in a form that we have no current means of detecting?

Now, we are collecting and measuring every known form of energy and physical change by use of the specified instrumentation. Unless there is some form of unknown emmission we will have captured evidence of the transmission in some form.

But, in the true methodology of real science we will review and revise. We now add another set of scales, this time for the body alone. Thus, if the body looses mass into the chamber we can measure which part of the data is due to changes within the body alone. If the emmission is in the form of matter, evaporating volatiles or gas, or as a solid transmitted via some form of unknown matter transmission we should be able to at least speculate.

If, then, there no change in the energy/mass content of the whole system then we will know that the putative ''soul'' cannot pass through a solid wall - make sure at least a window is open when you kick the bucket. If the overall wieght of the system does change then we now know that some so far unknown method of transmitting matter/mass exists.

In one of the most exciting phrases in science, ''Now, that is interesting . . .''

As in the LHC one collects all available information, analyses that for known factors and then investigates any anomalous results for new knowledge. Speculation may be necessary here to find a theory (so beloved by religionistas) that answers the questions - yet to be proven.

I proposed to call this project the LSC, the Lost Soul Collector.

Big Grin
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18-08-2016, 10:46 AM
RE: Can you give me scientific references to mass loss during the pass over?
(18-08-2016 12:59 AM)theBorg Wrote:  
(17-08-2016 08:59 PM)Aliza Wrote:  If you are not capable of doing this, then you really shouldn’t be here trying to represent your religion.
Dear Jewish woman, you believe, that True God exists. I believe, that True God exists. Is this bad? I am polite enough: "Can you give me scientific references to mass loss during the pass over?" I am asking not for silly-looking debates, I am asking for the links to verified research papers.

Well… it’s debatable whether or not we believe in the same god. I’ll leave that for another thread.

“The Passover” is a Jewish holiday which commemorates the Jew’s departure from Egypt. You can read about it in Exodus.

I’m not well schooled about what happens to a body when a person passes away, and I’m not especially interested in learning. This is your thread and it’s your responsibility to present information to invoke curiosity and conversation from others. I will not be doing your homework by gathering data to build a case. I don’t really care what you believe about souls and the mass discrepancy of a body between life and death. Your beliefs on this subject don't affect me. As far as I’m concerned, the people on this forum (my friends) have not adopted your views, so there is no need for me to take action and you can carry on believing what you want.

But your goal seems to have been to convince us to adopt your views, and to this end, you have failed.
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18-08-2016, 12:40 PM
RE: Can you give me scientific references to mass loss during the pass over?
(18-08-2016 10:46 AM)Aliza Wrote:  ...
“The Passover” is a Jewish holiday which commemorates an infanticidal 'spirit's' massacre of innocent black babies. You can read about it in Exodus.
...

Fixt! Thumbsup



Fuckin' Jews.

Unsure

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18-08-2016, 12:45 PM
RE: Can you give me scientific references to mass loss during the pass over?
Given the prominent role of food in most Jewish celebrations I'd expect there to be a net gain in mass during passover.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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