Canada Legalizes Physician-Assisted Dying
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22-06-2016, 05:23 AM
RE: Canada Legalizes Physician-Assisted Dying
It's definitely a step in the right direction.

But sadly, this new law would have never help the person that first brought the challenge to end the ban on assisted suicide to the Supreme Court.

Partly because even though the court ruled that people suffering from illnesses that were not terminal (as Kay Carter's was) should also have the right to assisted suicide, the court maintained the ban for 12 months to let the government make new law. So she ended up going to Switzerland to end her life.

But also because this new law just only allows assisted suicide where the illness is terminal, so this new law still wouldn't have helped her.

Where's the logic in that? You can have help dying if your suffering and going to die anyway, but otherwise you have to suffer for the rest of your life?

Lastly to all those "sanctity of lifers" out there, even god only made Jesus suffer for 3 days.

A friend in the hole

"If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for what we really are." - Captain Picard
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22-06-2016, 06:32 AM
RE: Canada Legalizes Physician-Assisted Dying
(22-06-2016 04:46 AM)Zeff Wrote:  It is not as big a change as many people think. Doctors do kill people now, it just leaves them open to prosecution. There has long been code used for 'do not resuscitate' and people given a dose of morphine which is probably fatal. What would anyone do, just watch or enhance someone's suffering day after day?! Canada leads the way, again.

Yabbut, now they do it in hospitals after you have been rendered totally helpless and have done 98% of the suffering. Also, at that point there is no more money to be made. It should never be in another person's hands whether you live or die. It is only one person who should have a say - you, yourself. And for making a decision like that, you need t be alert and thinking clearly, not doped up in some sterile hospital bed after every approved procedure has been done on you.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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22-06-2016, 06:52 AM
RE: Canada Legalizes Physician-Assisted Dying
Dom: "Also, at that point there is no more money to be made." By the hospital management? Individual doctors?
Another argument for largely free Universal Health Care, perhaps.
The key is to keep financial remuneration consequent of sound clinical decisions.
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22-06-2016, 07:01 AM
RE: Canada Legalizes Physician-Assisted Dying
(22-06-2016 06:32 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 04:46 AM)Zeff Wrote:  It is not as big a change as many people think. Doctors do kill people now, it just leaves them open to prosecution. There has long been code used for 'do not resuscitate' and people given a dose of morphine which is probably fatal. What would anyone do, just watch or enhance someone's suffering day after day?! Canada leads the way, again.

Yabbut, now they do it in hospitals after you have been rendered totally helpless and have done 98% of the suffering. Also, at that point there is no more money to be made. It should never be in another person's hands whether you live or die. It is only one person who should have a say - you, yourself. And for making a decision like that, you need t be alert and thinking clearly, not doped up in some sterile hospital bed after every approved procedure has been done on you.
Not only in hospitals. Home health care nurses and doctors "turn a blind eye" to deaths that may have been caused by morphine overdose with terminal patients in the home.
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22-06-2016, 07:19 AM
RE: Canada Legalizes Physician-Assisted Dying
(22-06-2016 05:23 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(21-06-2016 08:46 PM)tomilay Wrote:  That's good to know. I was thinking lethal injection kind of setup.

Do you listen to the Thinking Atheist podcast? They did an episode on assisted suicide/right to die issues awhile back.

Here's a link:
Link-Link
Thanks for the link.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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22-06-2016, 07:25 AM
RE: Canada Legalizes Physician-Assisted Dying
(22-06-2016 01:49 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  I cannot think of any justification for government intrusion into the decision of a person to stop living and die. And I cannot think of any interest served by outlawing seeking physician assistance in such a decision.

When I was younger, there were laws making suicide illegal, oddly enough. One could be prosecuted for a failed attempt. Why? What interest is served by such laws?

The arguments against physician-assisted suicide are largely, I think, a holdover of religious abhorrence to suicide. Best begone with such levers of control, I say.

I am thinking run of the mill suicide is illegal because it rarely ONLY affects the perp. It usually comes with costs. Mental, social and financial.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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22-06-2016, 07:55 AM
RE: Canada Legalizes Physician-Assisted Dying
(22-06-2016 07:25 AM)tomilay Wrote:  I am thinking run of the mill suicide is illegal because it rarely ONLY affects the perp. It usually comes with costs. Mental, social and financial.

So, people should be forced to suffer because.... someone else wants money?

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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22-06-2016, 08:32 AM
RE: Canada Legalizes Physician-Assisted Dying
(22-06-2016 07:55 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 07:25 AM)tomilay Wrote:  I am thinking run of the mill suicide is illegal because it rarely ONLY affects the perp. It usually comes with costs. Mental, social and financial.

So, people should be forced to suffer because.... someone else wants money?

I am talking about eg someone picks gun and shoots himself out of extreme frustration. Maybe a dad. Leaves behind a wife and kids.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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22-06-2016, 08:51 AM
RE: Canada Legalizes Physician-Assisted Dying
(22-06-2016 08:32 AM)tomilay Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 07:55 AM)Dom Wrote:  So, people should be forced to suffer because.... someone else wants money?

I am talking about eg someone picks gun and shoots himself out of extreme frustration. Maybe a dad. Leaves behind a wife and kids.

That's the ones that make headlines - they are not all that frequent in the scope of things.

Suicide mostly doesn't ever get reported, like rape. Sometimes it's unavoidable, but most times it can be covered up. Why? Because of collecting insurance, because of the stigma associated with it, the blaming associated with it. Also, the vast majority of suicides is elderly.

When your day's ambition is to totter to the bathroom and back to bed, it's only your body that prevents you from being exactly how you are today. While you are likely still bright, your brain does change and you will have less inhibitions, and along with that comes a loss of the inhibition to commit suicide. Your body has become a huge burden to an active mind. People can't see past your body to find your vibrant mind. You can't use your body to do shit. It has become a jail. A painful, useless jail with not a ray of hope for betterment. I think it's where the concept of hell comes from. These are the people that have to sneak around and find a way to end it before it is too late and they are institutionalized and made to suffer to the bitter end. These are the people whose right to die I defend.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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22-06-2016, 09:04 AM
RE: Canada Legalizes Physician-Assisted Dying
I can use the two most recent deaths in my family as an example.
My mother quite suddenly knew she was done, came home, went to bed and was gone ten days later. The first few days we made our goodbyes and shared stories, but after that it became painful for all of us, and her especially. She had the shared mourning that she was forced to go through.
As hard as it would have been, if she could have said her goodbyes and made her own end it would have been more merciful.
My aunt got to the same place but her vigil lasted almost a month. her last day was Christmas 2014. That was so unnecessary, needless suffering. People should have a choice.
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