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Canadian Politics
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13-01-2014, 04:20 PM
RE: Canadian Politics
(13-01-2014 10:32 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(13-01-2014 10:11 AM)cjlr Wrote:  It's a consequence of statistics. In a winner-take-all district, those who vote for a losing candidate (which could well be and in fact usually is a majority of voters, in modern Canada) are not represented. Or rather, they're represented by someone who they didn't vote for and don't agree with.

This was not so silly a hundred years ago, but since partisanship has massively increased since then it has long since reached a point where voting is as much about voting against as voting for.

What you can blame people for is resisting change. In Ontario we had a referendum several years ago to move to proportional representation in Queen's Park; it was defeated 2:1 by FUD, basically.

^^^^^^ Citation Tongue

But that's true of any single member first-past-the-post constituency. Thus the problem has nothing to do with the particulars of a Commonwealth-style parliament in lieu of a Franco/American style semi-presidential one.

Although if anything it makes one respect the sheer bloodymindedness of American third-party voters! Of course, American third parties usually go about things ass-backwards (which is to say, top down instead of bottom up).

That we put electoral reform to a referendum likewise has nothing to do with such, being, as it was, a referendum. And given the woeful understanding most Canadians have of our political system (for which we can freely blame American media), and the knee-jerk tendency to reactionary sentiment (CHANGE IS BAD).

A majority government (such as we had both before and after the referendum's concurrent election) could unilaterally reform the process. But to quote Yes, Minister: "Very few governments will wish to change the process which put them into power".

My preferred system would be for a bicameral legislature of one national proportionally-elected chamber and one elected by geographical constituency. No country on Earth has quite such a thing.

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13-01-2014, 04:40 PM
RE: Canadian Politics
(13-01-2014 04:20 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(13-01-2014 10:32 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  ^^^^^^ Citation Tongue

But that's true of any single member first-past-the-post constituency. Thus the problem has nothing to do with the particulars of a Commonwealth-style parliament in lieu of a Franco/American style semi-presidential one.

Although if anything it makes one respect the sheer bloodymindedness of American third-party voters! Of course, American third parties usually go about things ass-backwards (which is to say, top down instead of bottom up).

That we put electoral reform to a referendum likewise has nothing to do with such, being, as it was, a referendum. And given the woeful understanding most Canadians have of our political system (for which we can freely blame American media), and the knee-jerk tendency to reactionary sentiment (CHANGE IS BAD).

A majority government (such as we had both before and after the referendum's concurrent election) could unilaterally reform the process. But to quote Yes, Minister: "Very few governments will wish to change the process which put them into power".

My preferred system would be for a bicameral legislature of one national proportionally-elected chamber and one elected by geographical constituency. No country on Earth has quite such a thing.

Ideally it would be direct democracy but that is not really achievable. The problem with the Parliamentary system is it gives extremist parties far more control than they warrant. In America right now I could see a white separatist party gaining seats if we went to a parliamentary system. Then there is the problem of Coalition governments, granted Washington is very polarised right now but across the aisle deals are the norm here, when the ruling government survives at the sufferance of the smallest members of it's coalition (when they have a bare majority) it gives that group extreme leverage.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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13-01-2014, 07:13 PM
RE: Canadian Politics
(13-01-2014 04:40 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  The problem with the Parliamentary system is it gives extremist parties far more control than they warrant.

Only if they win seats, for a start. And therefore only if they enjoy plurality in enough constituencies to influence the course of the house. And therefore only if they are genuinely representing some people.

(13-01-2014 04:40 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  In America right now I could see a white separatist party gaining seats if we went to a parliamentary system.

Elections to the United States House of Representatives and the Canadian House of Commons follow pretty much exactly the same rules - plurality winners in geographic districts.

Like, literally the exact same rules. That's not where the difference lies.

(13-01-2014 04:40 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Then there is the problem of Coalition governments,

... I'm not seeing how coalition governments are a problem in and of themselves.

(13-01-2014 04:40 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  ... granted Washington is very polarised right now but across the aisle deals are the norm here

Which, again, does not really speak to the underlying political system, in the USA or elsewhere. Consider perhaps that in Canada some matters (particularly social issues) are put to conscience votes, and that opposition parties often have great influence over matters of government in just about any free country.

(13-01-2014 04:40 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  ... when the ruling government survives at the sufferance of the smallest members of it's coalition (when they have a bare majority) it gives that group extreme leverage.

Yes, but, we might observe that that is not what happens in parliamentary states. It's a problem almost entirely limited to those whose governments are decided by straight proportional representation in fractious nations...

Notwithstanding that a government unable to enact its agenda is pretty much useless. "The government can't pass its own legislation" is not an issue anywhere but the US. Ditto "the government refuses to pay the bills it has obligated itself to pay".

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20-01-2014, 07:55 AM (This post was last modified: 20-01-2014 08:02 AM by Shoebutton.)
RE: Canadian Politics
One of things that scares me the most about the Harper government is his total destruction of Science He is closing science libraries and destroying decades of research.Health Research libraries are today's target.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/health-c...-1.2499217

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/fisherie...-1.2486171

http://scienceblogs.com/confessions/2013...ndictment/
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