Cancer Charlatans.
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11-01-2013, 06:10 PM (This post was last modified: 11-01-2013 08:29 PM by fstratzero.)
Cancer Charlatans.
I know somebody who has thoroughly bought into alternative holistic medicine, and need help disproving their "treatments".

The doctor they are seeing right now is that guy from canceroptions.us






John Jimenez
http://www.canceroptions.us/
Toni Jimenez
http://www.hope4cancer.com/

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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11-01-2013, 08:30 PM
RE: Cancer Charlatans.
The reason why I'm asking for help to disprove his claims is this

"Our experience was negative. The program did nothing for my daughter. She died several months after receiving treatment. Nor did I see recoveries on the part of others to support the bloated statistics that Toni Jimenez gave in a phone interview prior to our deciding to go there. The staff are attentive while you are there, but they ignore you after you leave even if you have signed up for their home programs. I think most nurses, technicians, and office people genuinely think they are helping patients, but I think Jimenez and the other doctors know the true situation--and once you are gone, they don't want to know what has happened to you because it doesn't support their advertisements. Two weeks is too short a time to cure someone of a life-threatening illness, and patients are sent home with demanding regimes that few can follow for any period of time and often with ports for IVs that can result in serious infections requiring hospitalization. Jimenez spends most of his time promoting the program. In our experience, he spends little time with patients at the clinic. When we were there, no one had been able to find reviews of the clinic. The reviews on the web are promotional items by the clinic. "

http://www.cancercompass.com/message-boa...1223,1.htm

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11-01-2013, 08:39 PM
RE: Cancer Charlatans.
I'm going to give you the best video you can ever come across.



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11-01-2013, 08:53 PM (This post was last modified: 11-01-2013 08:58 PM by cheapthrillseaker.)
RE: Cancer Charlatans.
My parents where all into this shit when I was younger. They still are, in fact. Forget coupons, I'm saving money from their examples!

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11-01-2013, 11:25 PM (This post was last modified: 11-01-2013 11:29 PM by robotworld.)
RE: Cancer Charlatans.
Let me try Smile
Quote: Quote from website: "Cancer is a prime example of how heavy metal toxicity, free radical damage, pathogen infection, mineral and vitamin deficiencies, inflammation, mitochondria dysfunction, (causing oxygen deficiency) immune system depression, and oxidative stress all come together into an end stage life threatening condition. Cancer treatment can be approached in many ways but the best way would be to address all these problems simultaneously."
First sentence is kind of fear mongering. To put it simply, cancer is what happens when your cells go haywire. Each cancer is different, and each has different causes. And technically there is no universal best way due to the vastly different nature for each form of cancer. So "addressing all these problems simultaneously" is not a good way.

Now I'll look at the treatments offered:
Sono PhotoDynamic Therapy

Basically what they say is that they give you something called a sensitizer (a chemical compound that is capable of light emission after receiving energy from a chemical reaction), then they either fire sound or light energy onto the spot where the tumour is.
The site mentions the use of photodynamic therapy. Here's a fine example of misdirection. Photodynamic therapy is indeed a form of therapy used for many medical purposes. Unlike photodynamic therapy, sono photodynamic therapy does not have credible research papers backing it up. A simple Google Scholar search can tell the difference.

Immune System Therapies

Well that's surprisingly vague compared to the previous treatment. What antibodies are involved? In theory the aim is to generate an immune reaction to kill off the cancer cells. It's possible, but the website is being very vague about that. Can't attack them if they are not specific.

INDIBA Hyperthermia Therapy

Yes, there is such a thing called hyperthermia therapy. It's a form of therapy that utilises heat to either damage cancer cells or make them more sensitive to other treatments. For this section... any physicists/engineers that mind checking the mechanisms they use for hyperthermia therapy?

Poly MVA

To summarise, no conclusive evidence that it works.
Cancer.org's information on PolyMVA

Iscador

Same as above. Not conclusive yet, but has some potential. Does not mean it works.

Stem Cell Cancer Therapy

Surprisingly nice information on stem cells and what they are. One major problem about this section. They did not mention HOW they will be using the stem cells to treat cancer. The first 3 sentences did not help at all.

IV OZONE/ LIQUID OXYGEN

Just some thoughts here. Correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression the last thing you should give cancer cells is freaking oxygen. There is a process called angiogenesis in which tumour cells create new blood vessels to supply them oxygen and nutrients. You can see where this is going. But back to the site, there's a whole lot of nonsense. Here's one:
Quote:O2 is a highly-concentrated super-energized colloidal liquid and registered proprietary formulation containing 70 trace elements and minerals (from fossilized plants taken from virgin earth, and from the clean southern seas surrounding New Zealand, unrefined and still containing natural trace elements), amino acids, Silica extract from plants, and dissolved nascent oxygen, suspended in a solution of Deuterium Sulfate (D2 SO4) as a complete mineral and nutritional supplement. O2 enhances nutritional biochemical activities and brings to your body what modern living and technology is stripping away.
What the f***. O2 is oxygen, and liquid oxygen is just... oxygen in liquid form. The above is pure pseudoscientific nonsense. Even if they actually use liquid oxygen... freeze damage can occur.

Biological Vaccine- VCAN

Wow, how vague.

Regeneration & Rejuvenation Therapy

Also very vague on how each therapy is actually carried out.

Antimicrobial Therapy Cancer Treatment

Currently only Helicobacter pylori is known to cause cancer via chronic inflammation. No idea which bacteria is the page referring to. I can safely say such a treatment does not work for nearly all cancers.

That's all for now. They either become vague for their treatments, or resort to pure nonsense. They have a tendency to spam information, possibly overwhelming the reader. Hope that helps Smile

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12-01-2013, 05:22 AM
RE: Cancer Charlatans.
Can these people be investigated for fraud ? They're effectively murdering people by making them go for wrong treatments Angry
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12-01-2013, 05:39 AM
RE: Cancer Charlatans.
Not just fraud. Murder, manslaughter, something along these lines. Such people should be taken out like the cancerous growths that they are. The evil part of me hopes they all get the diseases they're healing others of.

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12-01-2013, 05:52 AM
RE: Cancer Charlatans.
(12-01-2013 05:39 AM)Vera Wrote:  Not just fraud. Murder, manslaughter, something along these lines. Such people should be taken out like the cancerous growths that they are. The evil part of me hopes they all get the diseases they're healing others of.
A fitting punishment. I don't know though. I just wish they'd stop. They might even believe their own bullshit. But they are monkeying with people's *lives*. That's not shit you play around with. There should be some kind of standards authority for anyone offering treatments for life-threatening diseases like this, surely ?
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12-01-2013, 05:58 AM
RE: Cancer Charlatans.
(12-01-2013 05:52 AM)morondog Wrote:  A fitting punishment. I don't know though. I just wish they'd stop. They might even believe their own bullshit. But they are monkeying with people's *lives*. That's not shit you play around with. There should be some kind of standards authority for anyone offering treatments for life-threatening diseases like this, surely ?
Well, we have a lot of those around here and I'm certain a lot of them do realise they're selling crap. And the ones who do not - well, when you're this dumb, you have no right messing with other people's health/lives. Of course, it's a catch-22 kinda thing, because the dumb ones are too dumb to realise they're dumb.

And yeah, there should be standards, but then people claim those "treatments" have never be disproven and people have the right to decide what to do with their own bodies, so it gets kinda murky. If you ask me, they should all go to jail and stay there.

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12-01-2013, 07:04 AM
RE: Cancer Charlatans.
These guys are not the only ones capitalizing on cancer. You have to watch the medical community like a hawk, too.

When my husband was first diagnosed with bladder and prostate cancer, the local surgeon wanted to first treat with Bacille Calmette-Guerin (BCG).

In short, it is an infusion of tuberculosis type bacteria into the bladder that apparently in some cases causes the bladder to form antibodies that just so happen to kill the cancer. It is an old treatment and it works in some people, which is of course is nice as no further treatments are required, the body does it all itself. It is a valid first step for bladder cancer that is caught in the very early stages, when you have time for trial and error treatments. It is rare, but possible for the patient to contract tuberculosis.

It is totally futile when you are looking at bladder cancer with prostate involvement, as the prostate will not benefit at all from it and surgery will still be required. It is also not potent enough to deal with advanced cancer. Add in the risk of tuberculosis and this procedure is totally unwarranted for advanced bladder cancer with prostate involvement.

Why did the surgeon want to do that? Either the money, or ignorance in his profession. Or both.

So I scoured the web and found the most advanced treatments and the pioneers in them, decided what would apply best to hubby's situation, located the most experienced doctor paracticing this, and we went there and got surgery scheduled.

This doc about fainted when we mentioned Bacille Calmette-Guerin (BCG) treatment for my husband. He says just the loss of time before actually effective treatment may have killed hubby.

This operation was by the way totally successful, despite complications encountered afterwards, and hubby got to enjoy some cancer free times in full health before a totally unrelated type of cancer struck in the liver.

Anyway, cancer patients need advocates, people who watch every step along the way, educate themself and are not afraid to yell "foul". The patient him/herself is often not able to do research and doesn't have the strength to oppose doctors or other people who claim to be able to cure him/her. No matter how educated and spunky in real life, as cancer struck patient one loses the ability to weigh options properly and protect oneself. It's part of being so sick.

So if the patient has gullible friends and family, s/he is likely to just go along with it. Hope is all the patient has got, and whoever offers that, wins.

If you know cancer patients in such situations, all you can do is inform them, be present as much as possible whenever decisions need to be made and before the patient signs any consent forms, and educate, educate, educate.

It is a shitty situation, you can't trust charlatans and you can't trust your doctors, either. Mistakes in meds are more common than you think in hospitals, and meds need constant monitoring by the advocate.

The lucky cancer patient has an advocate with them at all times and that justifies hope, at least everything can happen according to the latest findings.

Charlatans can easily hide behind statistics concerning ALL patients on all treatments - people with cancer often die anyway, no matter the treatment. And you have spontaneous remissions too, that can happen without any treatment at all. These can be presented as successes...

Whenever we don't know enough about a subject to deal with it effectively, you have charlatans profiting. And some actually believe in what they do, others know damn well it doesn't work.

There are a lot of paralells to religion, people believe in a treatment as they would in a religion.

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