Cancer Charlatans.
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12-01-2013, 07:20 AM
RE: Cancer Charlatans.
Nothing beats cancer like a knife or chemotherapy. OR BOTH!
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12-01-2013, 07:27 AM
RE: Cancer Charlatans.
(12-01-2013 05:22 AM)morondog Wrote:  Can these people be investigated for fraud ? They're effectively murdering people by making them go for wrong treatments Angry


Unfortunately it is very difficult. The OP said that patients are sent home with a treatment plan that is impossible to follow for very long. If the person stops doing what a doctor (however laughable the doc is) and dies after stopping, the case can be made for the patient being at fault for their own death. The best bet that I know of and this comes from having a grandmother that survived cancer is to get the cancer knocked out by modern medicine and then a good diet after.

As for creating a case against these guys, you need proof that their treatment does not work. Documented evidence that patients are doing exactly what they are told and still dying.
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12-01-2013, 07:29 AM
RE: Cancer Charlatans.
(12-01-2013 05:39 AM)Vera Wrote:  Not just fraud. Murder, manslaughter, something along these lines. Such people should be taken out like the cancerous growths that they are. The evil part of me hopes they all get the diseases they're healing others of.


You know damn well that if they get cancer, they will have it taken care of at a hospital. Not use their own treatments. They probably make big money, which means they have the best medical benefits available.
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12-01-2013, 07:40 AM
RE: Cancer Charlatans.
(12-01-2013 07:29 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(12-01-2013 05:39 AM)Vera Wrote:  Not just fraud. Murder, manslaughter, something along these lines. Such people should be taken out like the cancerous growths that they are. The evil part of me hopes they all get the diseases they're healing others of.
You know damn well that if they get cancer, they will have it taken care of at a hospital. Not use their own treatments. They probably make big money, which means they have the best medical benefits available.
Just like faith healers, the hypocrites of the many.
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12-01-2013, 07:47 AM
RE: Cancer Charlatans.
(12-01-2013 07:27 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(12-01-2013 05:22 AM)morondog Wrote:  Can these people be investigated for fraud ? They're effectively murdering people by making them go for wrong treatments Angry


Unfortunately it is very difficult. The OP said that patients are sent home with a treatment plan that is impossible to follow for very long. If the person stops doing what a doctor (however laughable the doc is) and dies after stopping, the case can be made for the patient being at fault for their own death. The best bet that I know of and this comes from having a grandmother that survived cancer is to get the cancer knocked out by modern medicine and then a good diet after.

As for creating a case against these guys, you need proof that their treatment does not work. Documented evidence that patients are doing exactly what they are told and still dying.
Yabut, these guys are claiming statistics for people 'cured' by their methods. That means they've done studies, right? Of course not, but surely they could get nailed for that? Also, a standards authority could enforce a rule like no using therapies that have not been subject to clinical trial.

A simple comparison of the death rates of patients attending their farce of a clinic and a modern cancer unit would also probably hurt their business quite a bit Angry Bastards.
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12-01-2013, 08:35 AM (This post was last modified: 12-01-2013 09:37 AM by Anjele.)
RE: Cancer Charlatans.
A cancer diagnosis is scary and people become willing to do what they are told to do and/or they will often try anything no matter how crazy the 'treatment' is.

Fear feeds all the industries that have their hands out to make money off of cancer patients. Cancer talk is full of things that most people don't know much about so the word of 'experts' often gets in the way of actually learning about the disease and potential treatments. The urgency applied to the diagnosis makes it harder to take the time to sift through the mountains of often conflicting information regarding appropriate treatment.

I went to my first breast cancer support group this past week...it's amazing the number of different courses of treatment that were taken by the eleven women there. What I did notice is that the one that went with the most aggressive form of chemo/radiation treatment along with surgery went from a stage 2 tumor to now being considered stage 4 with lymph and bone [edited to add: and lung] involvement. I had the least amount of treatment, surgery only, after three years (same as the other woman with the same diagnosis) I am considered to be cancer free.

I still maintain that it's kind of a crap shoot. You have to educate yourself and find the best medical team you can put together. And surely, your overall health and genetics play into it as well.

'See here they are, the bruises, some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way.' -JF
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12-01-2013, 08:40 AM
RE: Cancer Charlatans.
(12-01-2013 08:35 AM)Anjele Wrote:  What I did notice is that the one that went with the most aggressive form of chemo/radiation treatment along with surgery went from a stage 2 tumor to now being considered stage 4 with lymph and bone involvement. I had the least amount of treatment, surgery only, after three years (same as the other woman with the same diagnosis) I am considered to be cancer free.
I was thinking, is it possible that they got such aggressive treatment because their cancer was more aggressive or advanced or something?

Just wondering...
Also, like you said, genetics plays a major role.

This reminds me, have you guys read this book?
"Her name was Henrietta Lacks, but scientists know her as HeLa. She was a poor Southern tobacco farmer who worked the same land as her slave ancestors, yet her cells—taken without her knowledge—became one of the most important tools in medicine. The first “immortal” human cells grown in culture, they are still alive today, though she has been dead for more than sixty years. If you could pile all HeLa cells ever grown onto a scale, they’d weigh more than 50 million metric tons—as much as a hundred Empire State Buildings. HeLa cells were vital for developing the polio vaccine; uncovered secrets of cancer, viruses, and the atom bomb’s effects; helped lead to important advances like in vitro fertilization, cloning, and gene mapping; and have been bought and sold by the billions.

Yet Henrietta Lacks remains virtually unknown, buried in an unmarked grave."



It really is worth reading, imo.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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12-01-2013, 08:45 AM (This post was last modified: 12-01-2013 09:37 AM by Anjele.)
RE: Cancer Charlatans.
We had the same diagnosis of Triple Negative Breast Cancer. It's a newer subset of breast cancer so info is really tough to find as far as what works and what doesn't. TNBC is seen to be very aggressive and the best statistics they can give is that your risk either falls dramatically for recurrence after three years or it comes back with a vengeance within that three years. As my oncologist said...if it comes back...it's ugly.

We were same stage, she is about 14 years younger than I am and she did state she was somewhat overweight at the time, other than that it looked to be the same.

'See here they are, the bruises, some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way.' -JF
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12-01-2013, 09:22 AM
RE: Cancer Charlatans.
I have no direct experience myself, but on the Atheist Experience one of the presenters whose husband had died of cancer recommended what I believe was the following book:
"American Cancer Society Complete Guide to Complementary & Alternative Cancer Therapies"
"Written for consumers, patients, and families seeking reliable information about nontraditional therapies, this is a quick and easy guide to the latest information about complementary and alternative methods most commonly available to people with cancer. It includes more than 250 entries covering a broad range of topics, such as herbs, vitamins, minerals, mind/body/spirit, diet and nutrition, physical touch, and biological methods. Each entry provides a synopsis of what the method involves and what effects can occur. Current research findings are explained in brief and understandable language, providing fast access to specific areas of interest."
http://www.amazon.com/American-Complete-...0944235719
She said that it included all of the current research (as of publication in 2009 I suppose) into just about every cure around... things like whether there were some trials or no trials, whether the trials were in petri dishes/animals/humans, etc. It's an 893 page tome on the subject.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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12-01-2013, 09:41 AM
RE: Cancer Charlatans.
Hafnof...I am sure the book would be very helpful if for no other reason than to show there isn't just one way to go about treatment. One thing to consider is that cancer treatment and diagnosis is constantly changing...when I got the TNBC diagnosis three years ago...that was the diagnosis. When I saw my oncologist in December she said they are on the verge of announcing six subgroups of the TNBC cancer. That's how fast the technology changes. Course, my doc is also a researcher so she is pretty much on the cutting edge of new knowledge.

'See here they are, the bruises, some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way.' -JF
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