Capitalism and Christianity
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12-06-2012, 06:11 PM (This post was last modified: 12-06-2012 06:21 PM by Mr Woof.)
Capitalism and Christianity
Throughout Christianity there has been a strong link between the monied class (Royalty, consorts etc) and the Church leaders who generally, more or less, supported one another in a shared ruling of the masses. It was of value to both groups to maintain a cowered fearfull peasantry and religion and the military achieved both ends.

After the Reformation the serving classes were encouraged to read their Bibles rather than simply listen to the priests and this could be seen as achieving some degree of autonomy. Far from it, as Max Weber indicated,those peasants forced from the land to work in industrialized England were encouraged to work hard and long and for very little in order to please God, and thus perhaps be judged favourably for eternal life.

The bulk of Christianity has encouraged a placid master serving people who turn the other cheek when confronted, obey their betters who have God's ear, obey Caesor (existing government) and be meek and mild until such people eventually rule the world. In other words Christianity has bred a compliant people and a ruling class who has taken advantage of the former;of late by utilizing a gross consumer oriented ideology

Today, as in the Middle Ages, Christianity co exists awkwardly with capitalism by providing a sop to the masses many of whom are exploted without even knowing it. Moslem terrorism means that Mother Church must sadly give support to the weapons lobby in order to fight the good fight, while hating to have to do so. Where Christianity condemns gambling, vice, greed, cruely, violence,gluttony, drugs, perversity etc it gets its bread buttered here needing the dark aspects of nature to push its own entrepreneurial dogmas. Here we have two polarised systems both of which parodoxically help one another the further they go.

Corrupt mega capitalism, like a devil in its own right implores its sporn to engage in more and more endless sensual delights to obtain a multitude of pleasures along with their antidotes which may also be purchased. For example, the grossly obese, when things become too dangerous, can opt for lap band surgery, lipo suction, or maybe perform in Biggest Loser, while still supporting the ecomomy. This scenario may me appled to a great many areas where we see Big Brother organize, dis organize then re organize our lives again and again in some bizarre vicious circle.

Perhaps this is the way most of us are, fodder for clever people to use..................As Neitzsche pointed out the simpering led masses would always be dangerous servile and their own worst enemy. If the masters are corrupt and their servants borderline idiots then all we who can, can do individually at least, is become overmen and women in our own rights using our ability to think as best and decently we can.
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12-06-2012, 07:20 PM
RE: Capitalism and Christianity
I thought "Take no thought for the morrow" would have put that little marriage made in Hades to bed.

" Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous."
David Hume
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12-06-2012, 08:05 PM
RE: Capitalism and Christianity
Hey, Woof.

I think that's a bit messy.

The only time that religion IS the ruling class in a theocracy. All other times, it is a part of what Althusser would call the Ideological State Apparatus; that's the relationship between religion and the state that you spoke of in your opener (the military would be a part of the Repressive State Apparatus). Working hard for Jeebus is a good example of the impact of the ISA. Switching from sermons to reading the bible on your own is a good example of what Foucault would call the atomisation of power.

While within the larger state, religion is only a part of the apparatus, within the context of the religion's organisation itself, you better believe it's about control. Hierarchical organisations do one thing; they accumulate and exert power.

Overall, the link you make in the thread title is a little misleading. Religion is thousands of years old. Capitalism is hundreds. Their relationship has been short. But as I mentioned above, religion has long been a part of the power apparatus.

I'm pretty tired, but there's an analogy I want to speak to. Comparing mammals to cats. One can't do it. Cats are a kind of mammal. Other mammals aren't like cats, cats are like other mammals. All power structures are not like religion, religion is like all power structures. I hope that made some kind of sense.

Fuck my life, I'm tired. I wanted to say that your ideas were a little sloppy and did it by firing projectile diarrhea onto my keyboard lol.

I think all I really wanted to say is that the relaitionship is not between religion and capitalism, but between religion and whatever happens to be the flavour of the day.

I gotta go hose off my keyboard Cool

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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12-06-2012, 08:14 PM
RE: Capitalism and Christianity
(12-06-2012 08:05 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Woof.

I think that's a bit messy.

The only time that religion IS the ruling class in a theocracy. All other times, it is a part of what Althusser would call the Ideological State Apparatus; that's the relationship between religion and the state that you spoke of in your opener (the military would be a part of the Repressive State Apparatus). Working hard for Jeebus is a good example of the impact of the ISA. Switching from sermons to reading the bible on your own is a good example of what Foucault would call the atomisation of power.

While within the larger state, religion is only a part of the apparatus, within the context of the religion's organisation itself, you better believe it's about control. Hierarchical organisations do one thing; they accumulate and exert power.

Overall, the link you make in the thread title is a little misleading. Religion is thousands of years old. Capitalism is hundreds. Their relationship has been short. But as I mentioned above, religion has long been a part of the power apparatus.

I'm pretty tired, but there's an analogy I want to speak to. Comparing mammals to cats. One can't do it. Cats are a kind of mammal. Other mammals aren't like cats, cats are like other mammals. All power structures are not like religion, religion is like all power structures. I hope that made some kind of sense.

Fuck my life, I'm tired. I wanted to say that your ideas were a little sloppy and did it by firing projectile diarrhea onto my keyboard lol.

I think all I really wanted to say is that the relaitionship is not between religion and capitalism, but between religion and whatever happens to be the flavour of the day.

I gotta go hose off my keyboard Cool

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

Hey Ghost!
I see the link as tenuous but certainly there.

IMO there has been an ongoing parasitical feedy frenzy between both religion and corporate bodies in terms of their needs to manipulate.

Yes it is messy, largely because that is the inherent state of things, a social order that thrives on messiness and ad hoc patching up of its mistakes in order to function. Wink
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12-06-2012, 08:32 PM
RE: Capitalism and Christianity
Hey, Woof.

Hope I didn't get any poo on you Cool

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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12-06-2012, 08:39 PM
RE: Capitalism and Christianity
I didn't believe in miracles before joining this forum, but if I ever see Ghost chime in on a post without criticizing it in some way...

: )

Join the Logic Speaks Community

I am the unconverted
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12-06-2012, 08:53 PM
RE: Capitalism and Christianity
(12-06-2012 08:32 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Woof.

Hope I didn't get any poo on you Cool

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt



Hey Ghost.

Criticism, without abuse is always welcome..............helps dudes think harder,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,sometimes, not sure if thats a good thing....... Cool
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12-06-2012, 09:00 PM
RE: Capitalism and Christianity
It appears that I'll need to get more tin foil to line my hats.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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12-06-2012, 10:20 PM
RE: Capitalism and Christianity
I know eh? What a jerk I am. Always speaking up when I think that something is inaccurate, or flawed, or pfffft, isn't supported by evidence. Why can't I just be credulous and blink my eyes like a vacant vapid peon? I should chill. It's not like cockamamie ideas have any real world impact, right? Man, thinking is for chumps! I'm gonna go watch Fox News.
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13-06-2012, 07:29 PM
RE: Capitalism and Christianity
(12-06-2012 08:39 PM)lightninlives Wrote:  I didn't believe in miracles before joining this forum, but if I ever see Ghost chime in on a post without criticizing it in some way...

: )


I see the problem with 'certainty' as a very real one. People tend to look to authority figures, quotes from books, citations, dictionary definitions etc, without realising that the folk they choose, at times, write quite contradictory things, even in the same book or research paper. I am not knocking this approach but it is no panacea.

I believe that dogma destroys dialogue, many things are possible, and as beings of limited cognitive abilities,; thus so,I look to levels of possibility as opposed to pseudo hard line truths. Yes
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