Carrier - Jesus Didn't Exist
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18-04-2013, 09:42 PM (This post was last modified: 19-04-2013 05:36 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Carrier - Jesus Didn't Exist
(18-04-2013 08:55 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(18-04-2013 03:46 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  What kind of plague is he Carrying?

Smarter people than your dork have already debunked this kind of shit.



Eat a dick. Big Grin

I know Carrier's right and Ehrman's wrong 'cause I was there. Tongue

You didn't even watch the vid, did ya? Ya just opened your yap to regurgitate some appeal to authority crap... Consider

Dr. Ehrman came from a fundamentalist backgroud. He has an entire career invested in the historical dude. He has come a long way. He seems to be unable to even *imagine* that maybe Jebus was not a real dude. In the end, "don't make no never mind". Apocalyptic prophets/preachers were a dime a dozen. His cult was useful to the Romans, which is why we even know about it today. There was absolutley nothing unique about him or the stories they told about him.

That Craig/Ehrman video is the one where he uses that Baysean (probability) equation, and (Craig) tries to get away with an incorrect result. He calls it Bart's blunder.
I talked to Ehrman about it once. It's when I realized Craig was a sophist/magician/fraud. The correct result of the equation is "0", (zero probability for the resurrection), not "1.0".
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...ight=Craig
See # 39.

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18-04-2013, 11:11 PM
RE: Carrier - Jesus Didn't Exist
(18-04-2013 09:42 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(18-04-2013 08:55 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Eat a dick. Big Grin

I know Carrier's right and Ehrman's wrong 'cause I was there. Tongue

You didn't even watch the vid, did ya? Ya just opened your yap to regurgitate some appeal to authority crap... Consider

Dr, Ehrman came from a fundamentalist backgroud. He has an entire career invested in the historiacl dude. He has come a long way. He seems to be unable to even *imagine* that maybe Jebus was not a real dude. In the end, "don't make no never mind". Apocalyptic prophets were a dime a dozen. His cult was useful to the Romans, which is why we even know about it today. There was absolutley nothing unique about him or the stories they told about him.

That Craig/Ehrman video is the one where he uses that Baysean (probability) equation, and (Craig) tries to get away with an incorrect result. He calls it Bart's blunder.
I talked to Ehrman about it once. It's when I realized Craig was a sophist/magician/fraud. The correct result of the equation is "0", (zero probability for the resurrection), not "1.0".
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...ight=Craig
See # 39.

Nah. The mythicists are just as whacked as the Christees. Trying to make connections with shit that ain't real. They're the ones with something invested: if they would have been able to show that Jesus never existed then they could checkmate Christianity. Instead they look like wild-eyed conspiricists on the order of an Arctic Sage or Trainwreck. Drinking Beverage

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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18-04-2013, 11:18 PM (This post was last modified: 18-04-2013 11:49 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Carrier - Jesus Didn't Exist
(18-04-2013 11:11 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(18-04-2013 09:42 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Dr, Ehrman came from a fundamentalist backgroud. He has an entire career invested in the historiacl dude. He has come a long way. He seems to be unable to even *imagine* that maybe Jebus was not a real dude. In the end, "don't make no never mind". Apocalyptic prophets were a dime a dozen. His cult was useful to the Romans, which is why we even know about it today. There was absolutley nothing unique about him or the stories they told about him.

That Craig/Ehrman video is the one where he uses that Baysean (probability) equation, and (Craig) tries to get away with an incorrect result. He calls it Bart's blunder.
I talked to Ehrman about it once. It's when I realized Craig was a sophist/magician/fraud. The correct result of the equation is "0", (zero probability for the resurrection), not "1.0".
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...ight=Craig
See # 39.

Nah. The mythicists are just as whacked as the Christees. Trying to make connections with shit that ain't real. They're the ones with something invested: if they would have been able to show that Jesus never existed then they could checkmate Christianity. Instead they look like wild-eyed conspiricists on the order of an Arctic Sage or Trainwreck. Drinking Beverage

You may be right. But in general I think the mythicists are seen as "nuts" cuz it's a pretty unique idea. People just assume, "well of course he existed". When Simon of Perea was discovered with the same traits, it made a lot of people wonder.

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18-04-2013, 11:47 PM
RE: Carrier - Jesus Didn't Exist
(18-04-2013 11:18 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(18-04-2013 11:11 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Nah. The mythicists are just as whacked as the Christees. Trying to make connections with shit that ain't real. They're the ones with something invested: if they would have been able to show that Jesus never existed then they could checkmate Christianity. Instead they look like wild-eyed conspiricists on the order of an Arctic Sage or Trainwreck. Drinking Beverage

You may be right. But in general I think the mythicists are seen as "nuts" cuz it's a pretty unique idea. People just assume, "well of course he existed". When Simon of Perea was discovered with the same traits, it masde a lot of people wonder.

Yes, only I don't believe the idea can be described as unique. Weeping

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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19-04-2013, 02:57 AM
RE: Carrier - Jesus Didn't Exist
(18-04-2013 11:11 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  They're the ones with something invested: if they would have been able to show that Jesus never existed then they could checkmate Christianity.

You bumped yer head. A Christ is as necessary to people's delusions as is a Xanu. Tongue

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19-04-2013, 05:33 AM
RE: Carrier - Jesus Didn't Exist
(18-04-2013 06:34 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(18-04-2013 06:28 PM)Chas Wrote:  Who is your dork?

Dr. Bart Ehrman, the James A. Gray (Whoever he is) Distinguished Professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Historian and scholar.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_D._Ehrman

There's quite a rivalry here, actually. Richard Carrier is constantly correcting what he believes to be Bart Ehrman's factual errors. The main problem here is, for us listeners, we don't have the sources to double-check either man's assertions and say "oh, this guy is wrong and this one is right".

Having heard both men at length, I think Richard Carrier is right when he claims that Bart Ehrman relies too heavily on "where there's smoke, there's fire". I don't have a problem with Dr. Ehrman's methods of historical criticism, but there are some occasions where he steps outside of them and just "goes with his gut", even though he obviously doesn't put it that way. For instance, why does Bart Ehrman believe that there's some truth to the forgery inserted in Josephus' Antiquities about Jesus? He believes that Christians conflated something that was already there, despite the fact that the whole passage about Jesus is clearly out of context given the stories before and after it (about "tragedies").

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19-04-2013, 05:45 AM
RE: Carrier - Jesus Didn't Exist
(19-04-2013 05:33 AM)Starcrash Wrote:  
(18-04-2013 06:34 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Dr. Bart Ehrman, the James A. Gray (Whoever he is) Distinguished Professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Historian and scholar.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_D._Ehrman

There's quite a rivalry here, actually. Richard Carrier is constantly correcting what he believes to be Bart Ehrman's factual errors. The main problem here is, for us listeners, we don't have the sources to double-check either man's assertions and say "oh, this guy is wrong and this one is right".

Having heard both men at length, I think Richard Carrier is right when he claims that Bart Ehrman relies too heavily on "where there's smoke, there's fire". I don't have a problem with Dr. Ehrman's methods of historical criticism, but there are some occasions where he steps outside of them and just "goes with his gut", even though he obviously doesn't put it that way. For instance, why does Bart Ehrman believe that there's some truth to the forgery inserted in Josephus' Antiquities about Jesus? He believes that Christians conflated something that was already there, despite the fact that the whole passage about Jesus is clearly out of context given the stories before and after it (about "tragedies").

Agree 100 %. I've seen the oldest copy of the Josephus passage in the Museo Ambrosiano, (in Milan). Different ink. Different scribe. As you say, it is totally out of context, of that specific page/chapter/text. It also makes no sense in the context of the entire book. Josephus was a minion of Vespasian. He was trying to show, in the book, that Vespasian was THE messiah, and all the others were "pretenders". Why then would he make an exception, and CHANGE the entire thrust of his work/text, and say Jebus was a real messiah ? It's just too bizarre. It makes no sense at all. He was not that stupid. Josephus would never have said something like that, when he wanted Vespasian to be seen as the messiah.

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21-04-2013, 06:18 PM
RE: Carrier - Jesus Didn't Exist




Inspiration for more neck. Big Grin

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22-04-2013, 01:32 AM
RE: Carrier - Jesus Didn't Exist
A few more things about Philo's pre-Christian Jesus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Benjamin_Smith
http://opensiuc.lib.siu.edu/cgi/viewcont...ontext=ocj
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_myth_theory

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22-04-2013, 09:37 AM
RE: Carrier - Jesus Didn't Exist
Ehrman is a better public speaker, only thing i'll give him over Carrier.
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