Case for christ for kids
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23-09-2015, 07:46 PM
Case for christ for kids
My wife bought it for my son. I have already read TCFC and saw it for what it was: a poorly researched case of confirmation bias with an assload of logical fallacies. So I was reading the kids version tonight, it's not that hard. The problem is that it is actually WORSE than TCFC in terms of it's blatant misrepresentation of facts and downright coercive writing. This is the type of crap given to kids that absolutely pisses me off to no end. She has said that we can discuss it beforehand but I am pretty sure how that will end: with her being hurt or completely misunderstanding why I have problems with the book. One thing I have thought is to try and ask her whether she wants our son to believe based on good information or bad, or even if she even cares whether it is bad information as long as he believes. I am really scared what she will say. If she wants him to believe on good information, then that is something I can work with. If she doesn't care, then I don't know what to do. I really don't want this book to be fed to my son because it is not a case at all, it is complete brainwashing. I mean, he presents nothing and yet acts like it is such a slam-dunk case, then he tries to coerce them into saying the salvation prayer. I shit you not, they don't present anything and then let the reader make up their own mind.

To top it off, my wife has been so short and seemingly angry lately with everyone and I am not sure why. I have asked her and she assures me that there is nothing which of course means that there is something but she won't tell me. Sorry, but I have nowhere else to vent to. I really hate this gorilla in our lives.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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23-09-2015, 08:06 PM
RE: Case for christ for kids
Hug

I didn't know they had a kids version of TCFC. I really don't like Strobel--I didn't like him even when I was a Christian. He always came off as smug to me.

TCFC for kids follows that get 'em while they're young mentality which I find so disturbing. I can see why you would have a problem with your kids reading that. I think you had mentioned before that you are supportive of your wife teaching your kids religion--is there some other Christian-style book that might present better information? Something that talks about history and culture from that time period--as a companion to the Bible stories? For example, one of the Bible Commentaries I have was written by christian scholars--yet it explains the history and culture of the time and explains the passages. It also mentions that there is no evidence for Noah's flood etc. and also calls out incorrect "science" and explains why the biblical people believed as they did. Obviously, this is a Bible commentary book for adults--but maybe they have something like that for children?

I'm sorry you are going through all of that.

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23-09-2015, 08:29 PM
RE: Case for christ for kids
Can you ask her to read it with you first so you can discuss the merits of the book?

How old is your son btw?

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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23-09-2015, 08:32 PM
RE: Case for christ for kids
Hug
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23-09-2015, 08:33 PM (This post was last modified: 23-09-2015 08:40 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Case for christ for kids
(23-09-2015 07:46 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  My wife bought it for my son. I have already read TCFC and saw it for what it was: a poorly researched case of confirmation bias with an assload of logical fallacies. So I was reading the kids version tonight, it's not that hard. The problem is that it is actually WORSE than TCFC in terms of it's blatant misrepresentation of facts and downright coercive writing. This is the type of crap given to kids that absolutely pisses me off to no end. She has said that we can discuss it beforehand but I am pretty sure how that will end: with her being hurt or completely misunderstanding why I have problems with the book. One thing I have thought is to try and ask her whether she wants our son to believe based on good information or bad, or even if she even cares whether it is bad information as long as he believes. I am really scared what she will say. If she wants him to believe on good information, then that is something I can work with. If she doesn't care, then I don't know what to do. I really don't want this book to be fed to my son because it is not a case at all, it is complete brainwashing. I mean, he presents nothing and yet acts like it is such a slam-dunk case, then he tries to coerce them into saying the salvation prayer. I shit you not, they don't present anything and then let the reader make up their own mind.

To top it off, my wife has been so short and seemingly angry lately with everyone and I am not sure why. I have asked her and she assures me that there is nothing which of course means that there is something but she won't tell me. Sorry, but I have nowhere else to vent to. I really hate this gorilla in our lives.

I thought the original version was for toddlers. Big Grin

Stroebel is an idiot. A journalist with no training in any relevant field. He figured out how to make money on religion, and people are stupid enough to buy his shit.
No serious scholar takes him seriously. AT ALL. He's not even a good journalist, (which is all he was ever trained in).

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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23-09-2015, 09:18 PM
RE: Case for christ for kids
(23-09-2015 08:33 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(23-09-2015 07:46 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  My wife bought it for my son. I have already read TCFC and saw it for what it was: a poorly researched case of confirmation bias with an assload of logical fallacies. So I was reading the kids version tonight, it's not that hard. The problem is that it is actually WORSE than TCFC in terms of it's blatant misrepresentation of facts and downright coercive writing. This is the type of crap given to kids that absolutely pisses me off to no end. She has said that we can discuss it beforehand but I am pretty sure how that will end: with her being hurt or completely misunderstanding why I have problems with the book. One thing I have thought is to try and ask her whether she wants our son to believe based on good information or bad, or even if she even cares whether it is bad information as long as he believes. I am really scared what she will say. If she wants him to believe on good information, then that is something I can work with. If she doesn't care, then I don't know what to do. I really don't want this book to be fed to my son because it is not a case at all, it is complete brainwashing. I mean, he presents nothing and yet acts like it is such a slam-dunk case, then he tries to coerce them into saying the salvation prayer. I shit you not, they don't present anything and then let the reader make up their own mind.

To top it off, my wife has been so short and seemingly angry lately with everyone and I am not sure why. I have asked her and she assures me that there is nothing which of course means that there is something but she won't tell me. Sorry, but I have nowhere else to vent to. I really hate this gorilla in our lives.

I thought the original version was for toddlers. Big Grin

Stroebel is an idiot. A journalist with no training in any relevant field. He figured out how to make money on religion, and people are stupid enough to buy his shit.
No serious scholar takes him seriously. AT ALL. He's not even a good journalist, (which is all he was ever trained in).

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL...1FA8681B70

"Were I to take the most charitable position possible after reading this book, were I to accept Strobel’s claims that he was an atheist and that his intention was to present the facts about Jesus to other atheists and skeptics so that they might judge for themselves, were I to ignore the bias and attempts at manipulation, the best I could say for The Case for Christ is that it is a chronicle of its author’s credulity. If this was the evidence and these were the arguments that transformed Strobel from an atheist to a born-again evangelical Christian, I’m afraid it doesn’t say much for him." - Steve Shives

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23-09-2015, 09:59 PM
RE: Case for christ for kids
(23-09-2015 08:06 PM)jennybee Wrote:  Hug

I didn't know they had a kids version of TCFC. I really don't like Strobel--I didn't like him even when I was a Christian. He always came off as smug to me.

TCFC for kids follows that get 'em while they're young mentality which I find so disturbing. I can see why you would have a problem with your kids reading that. I think you had mentioned before that you are supportive of your wife teaching your kids religion--is there some other Christian-style book that might present better information? Something that talks about history and culture from that time period--as a companion to the Bible stories? For example, one of the Bible Commentaries I have was written by christian scholars--yet it explains the history and culture of the time and explains the passages. It also mentions that there is no evidence for Noah's flood etc. and also calls out incorrect "science" and explains why the biblical people believed as they did. Obviously, this is a Bible commentary book for adults--but maybe they have something like that for children?

I'm sorry you are going through all of that.

I didn't either until she told me she bought it. That was 10 bucks well spent.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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23-09-2015, 10:03 PM
RE: Case for christ for kids
(23-09-2015 08:29 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Can you ask her to read it with you first so you can discuss the merits of the book?

How old is your son btw?

My oldest is 8. He is a sharp kid but I don't think he has thr chops for something like this yet. I can't stand him either. I saw a program on youtube with him where he was discussing the fine tuning argument. Total bullshit made even more bullshit by the fact that he has absolutely no training in any sciences.

I sort of floated the reading it with her before and she seemed open to it. However, judging from past experience, anything other than agreement will not go down well. I hate this so much.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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23-09-2015, 11:10 PM
RE: Case for christ for kids
Get the kid a copy of Sagan's 'Demon Haunted World', or just have him watch Steve Shive's take-down of Stobel's book. Give the kid access to good information, and if he has a good grasp on critical thinking, let him sift through the bullshit himself and trust that he'll find the truth when it's presented to him. Neither you, nor your wife, have the right to dictate what your kid thinks. The best you can do is to arm him with the necessary tools to allow him to find his own path; and the better you arm him, the better his chances will be of weeding through the bullshit.

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24-09-2015, 06:39 AM
RE: Case for christ for kids
honestly, I would take your kid out for a few hours and have a heart to heart talk with him. Just explain what is going on. I don't know if you want to out yourself or not, but atleast tell the kid you have doubts, that it pisses off your wife. That each of you have concerns in regards to him. Explain that mom wants him to follow her ways and thats why she is buying books on these topics, and your problem is the lack of evidence.

end it with reassurance that he gets to choose his own way, and he is free to change his mind a bunch of different times if he feels like it.

honesty, reason, explanations on his level, freedom to choose and reassurance that those choices can be changed at any time.


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