Case for christ for kids
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24-09-2015, 07:14 AM
RE: Case for christ for kids
I wouldn't worry too much amigo Smile Kiddie poos are pretty good at figuring things out. Even if he wastes some portion of his life bowing to Jehovah and worrying about whether he's going to hell for masturbating, as long as he has access to information and a cool Dad who gives him science books for Christmas the kid will figure out where it's at - is my feeling anyway. Of course it's hard to just stand idly by if it's your kid...

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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24-09-2015, 07:27 AM
RE: Case for christ for kids
(24-09-2015 07:14 AM)morondog Wrote:  I wouldn't worry too much amigo Smile Kiddie poos are pretty good at figuring things out. Even if he wastes some portion of his life bowing to Jehovah and worrying about whether he's going to hell for masturbating, as long as he has access to information and a cool Dad who gives him science books for Christmas the kid will figure out where it's at - is my feeling anyway. Of course it's hard to just stand idly by if it's your kid...

If i had a child, I would have a real hard time giving my child a book that I knew *could* impact the way they view things and how they live their lives. I spent many years living my life for Jesus. I pushed my own wants, dreams, desires aside for Jesus. I also worried about going to hell if I deviated from the teachings of the church. OC is in a very tough position for sure. I just totally get his frustration and fear with giving his impressionable young child a book like that.
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24-09-2015, 07:39 AM
RE: Case for christ for kids
(24-09-2015 07:27 AM)jennybee Wrote:  
(24-09-2015 07:14 AM)morondog Wrote:  I wouldn't worry too much amigo Smile Kiddie poos are pretty good at figuring things out. Even if he wastes some portion of his life bowing to Jehovah and worrying about whether he's going to hell for masturbating, as long as he has access to information and a cool Dad who gives him science books for Christmas the kid will figure out where it's at - is my feeling anyway. Of course it's hard to just stand idly by if it's your kid...

If i had a child, I would have a real hard time giving my child a book that I knew *could* impact the way they view things and how they live their lives. I spent many years living my life for Jesus. I pushed my own wants, dreams, desires aside for Jesus. I also worried about going to hell if I deviated from the teachings of the church. OC is in a very tough position for sure. I just totally get his frustration and fear with giving his impressionable young child a book like that.

If the kid is armed with enough critical thinking and sound reasoning, combined with knowing that at least one of his parents is a viable conduit for any questions or doubts he may have? He'll be able to connect the dots well enough to realize that Jesus is nothing more than another Santa Clause, just one that too many adults refuse to stop pretending about. He just needs to not be scared into thinking that he's not allowed to think, to have doubts, to question everything.

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24-09-2015, 07:41 AM
RE: Case for christ for kids
Maybe raise the content issues with her one more time, as well as why you think the arguments are so flawed and coercive. If she decides to give it to your kid anyway, tell her that that is fine with you, but in that case you want the three of you to read it together, chapter by chapter, and discuss it nightly at the dinner table.
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24-09-2015, 07:42 AM
RE: Case for christ for kids
(24-09-2015 07:27 AM)jennybee Wrote:  
(24-09-2015 07:14 AM)morondog Wrote:  I wouldn't worry too much amigo Smile Kiddie poos are pretty good at figuring things out. Even if he wastes some portion of his life bowing to Jehovah and worrying about whether he's going to hell for masturbating, as long as he has access to information and a cool Dad who gives him science books for Christmas the kid will figure out where it's at - is my feeling anyway. Of course it's hard to just stand idly by if it's your kid...

If i had a child, I would have a real hard time giving my child a book that I knew *could* impact the way they view things and how they live their lives. I spent many years living my life for Jesus. I pushed my own wants, dreams, desires aside for Jesus. I also worried about going to hell if I deviated from the teachings of the church. OC is in a very tough position for sure. I just totally get his frustration and fear with giving his impressionable young child a book like that.

Tru dat Jenny. Just reading that book pissed me off. Talk about stifling critical thinking. It says that "some people have written books saying that Jesus wasn't the son of god" and stuff like that but it neglects to mention that a large chunk of these books were written by former believers.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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24-09-2015, 07:51 AM
RE: Case for christ for kids
(24-09-2015 06:39 AM)Bows and Arrows Wrote:  honestly, I would take your kid out for a few hours and have a heart to heart talk with him. Just explain what is going on. I don't know if you want to out yourself or not, but atleast tell the kid you have doubts, that it pisses off your wife. That each of you have concerns in regards to him. Explain that mom wants him to follow her ways and thats why she is buying books on these topics, and your problem is the lack of evidence.

end it with reassurance that he gets to choose his own way, and he is free to change his mind a bunch of different times if he feels like it.

honesty, reason, explanations on his level, freedom to choose and reassurance that those choices can be changed at any time.

He knows. It is not a secret in my family or my extended family as far as I am aware (at least on my side, not sure about hers). I have already told him what you said. Just the other day, he said that he didn't think it was true and I told him to reserve judgement for the time being. He is 8 and there is no rush. Just learn and think about it. My real concern is that my wife (through no fault of her own) will read it with him and he will either just accept it without question because he doesn't realize the "facts" in the book are completely wrong in most cases and won't think to ask to fact check (like his mom) or he will fake it because he doesn't want to upset her. Out of all the crap I have on my plate at the moment this is not something that I should have to be dealing with. Indoctrination nauseates me.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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24-09-2015, 08:46 AM
RE: Case for christ for kids
(24-09-2015 07:51 AM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  
(24-09-2015 06:39 AM)Bows and Arrows Wrote:  honestly, I would take your kid out for a few hours and have a heart to heart talk with him. Just explain what is going on. I don't know if you want to out yourself or not, but atleast tell the kid you have doubts, that it pisses off your wife. That each of you have concerns in regards to him. Explain that mom wants him to follow her ways and thats why she is buying books on these topics, and your problem is the lack of evidence.

end it with reassurance that he gets to choose his own way, and he is free to change his mind a bunch of different times if he feels like it.

honesty, reason, explanations on his level, freedom to choose and reassurance that those choices can be changed at any time.

He knows. It is not a secret in my family or my extended family as far as I am aware (at least on my side, not sure about hers). I have already told him what you said. Just the other day, he said that he didn't think it was true and I told him to reserve judgement for the time being. He is 8 and there is no rush. Just learn and think about it. My real concern is that my wife (through no fault of her own) will read it with him and he will either just accept it without question because he doesn't realize the "facts" in the book are completely wrong in most cases and won't think to ask to fact check (like his mom) or he will fake it because he doesn't want to upset her. Out of all the crap I have on my plate at the moment this is not something that I should have to be dealing with. Indoctrination nauseates me.

I am married to a believer, my girls are 10 & 12, so we just travelled a similar road. My children actually come up with simpler but much harder questions for him than I thought they could. Seriously, they impress me. How did the tigers not eat the deer? How did god create the sun on the 4th day if there was no light. The simplest stories they arent buying and there arent any good explanations for him to fall on.

He has had to submit that he doesnt have the answers and it really is just faith. Their questions have pushed him to push his boundaries in his own thinking. I know he was raised in a place that never questioned, and now his kids questions are moving him in that direction.

My children self identify as atheist and agnostic. My older one chooses the term agnostic because she understands the social repurcussions of being an athiest in the south and being a middle schooler she likes having friends. My youngest is more bold, an 'in your face' kind of kid and will call out anyone who would hold it against her. But around Dad they tone it down as a way of showing him respect, they don't want to mock him or his beliefs and they know it would hurt his feelings. We are still feeling our away around this part of it, it gets easier as the children get older and can have more thought out dialogue. When they were younger and not so keen on thinking before speaking- I tried to keep things to a minimum just for family harmony.

I talk a lot (probably too much) about religion with my girls, much of it is because we live in SC and its in our face many times a week. The conversations always come back to proof, evidence. I try to relate it back to how these beliefs affect people in the real world. This morning (not even sure how we got on the topic), but my oldest and I discussed how some people won't take blood products. And they die from refusing a simple medical procedure. How it affects others in their family. I asked her to imagine if her Dad did that, and how our lives would change because we depend on him. We also talked about science and the artificial blood products being developed, and who gets to make those choices -the patient, the family, the doctor.


Anyway, that was longwinded about how I handle it in our house, but I just try to always have the conversation going, looking at things from varied points of view, looking for the reasons why something is right/wrong, true/untrue.


"Life is a daring adventure or it is nothing"--Helen Keller
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24-09-2015, 08:55 AM
RE: Case for christ for kids
Is it possible to present this book along with another book (or conversation) that discusses how this book is flawed?
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24-09-2015, 10:41 AM
RE: Case for christ for kids
(24-09-2015 08:55 AM)ohio_drg Wrote:  Is it possible to present this book along with another book (or conversation) that discusses how this book is flawed?

That is kind of what I was thinking. If the 3 of us read it together. Just not sure how my wife would take it.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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24-09-2015, 10:58 AM
RE: Case for christ for kids
(23-09-2015 07:46 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  My wife bought it for my son. I have already read TCFC and saw it for what it was: a poorly researched case of confirmation bias with an assload of logical fallacies. So I was reading the kids version tonight, it's not that hard. The problem is that it is actually WORSE than TCFC in terms of it's blatant misrepresentation of facts and downright coercive writing. This is the type of crap given to kids that absolutely pisses me off to no end. She has said that we can discuss it beforehand but I am pretty sure how that will end: with her being hurt or completely misunderstanding why I have problems with the book. One thing I have thought is to try and ask her whether she wants our son to believe based on good information or bad, or even if she even cares whether it is bad information as long as he believes. I am really scared what she will say. If she wants him to believe on good information, then that is something I can work with. If she doesn't care, then I don't know what to do. I really don't want this book to be fed to my son because it is not a case at all, it is complete brainwashing. I mean, he presents nothing and yet acts like it is such a slam-dunk case, then he tries to coerce them into saying the salvation prayer. I shit you not, they don't present anything and then let the reader make up their own mind.

To top it off, my wife has been so short and seemingly angry lately with everyone and I am not sure why. I have asked her and she assures me that there is nothing which of course means that there is something but she won't tell me. Sorry, but I have nowhere else to vent to. I really hate this gorilla in our lives.

"Yes, dear, you can give it to him, after I annotate it."
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