Catalonia Referendum.
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
22-09-2017, 08:14 PM
Catalonia Referendum.
Thoughts? Particularly our European brethren.

Personally, I'm all for it. But I mean I was pro-Scotish independence and Im pro-Kurdistan independence. I don't see why a region of people who want to rule themselves shouldn't be allowed to do so.

Oh, by the way for those that don't know. Catalonia is a region in Spain (northeastern part bordering France). It's the richest region in Spain and pays the most taxes and receives the least benefits. Spain is an interesting country because it's very diverse. It's had an incredibly interesting history (seriously, look that shit up if you know nothing of Spanish history, it's fascinating. More so than British history IMO) and it's made up of several provinces. These provinces are all really different. There's a distinct Catalonian 'culture' and stuff. So it's not as crazy as it seems at face value that they would become their own nation.

But anyway, it's no surprise that the Spanish national government isn't too pleased with this referendum and has deemed it illegal. Yesterday (day before yesterday?) the Spanish government raided Catalonian government buildings, private owned buildings, they even raided the mail service and have arrested 12 government officials. Oh and the they deployed 7,000 troops (or Policemen?) to Catalonia.

So yea, shit hitting fan.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-09-2017, 08:22 PM
RE: Catalonia Referendum.
(22-09-2017 08:14 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Thoughts? Particularly our European brethren.

Personally, I'm all for it. But I mean I was pro-Scotish independence and Im pro-Kurdistan independence. I don't see why a region of people who want to rule themselves shouldn't be allowed to do so.

I can get behind that.

Quote:Oh, by the way for those that don't know. Catalonia is a region in Spain (northeastern part bordering France). It's the richest region in Spain and pays the most taxes and receives the least benefits. Spain is an interesting country because it's very diverse. It's had an incredibly interesting history (seriously, look that shit up if you know nothing of Spanish history, it's fascinating. More so than British history IMO) and it's made up of several provinces. These provinces are all really different. There's a distinct Catalonian 'culture' and stuff. So it's not as crazy as it seems at face value that they would become their own nation.

There have been spurious and not so spurious proposals over the years to split New York City off from the rest of the state as a new state -- using much of the same rationale. On the one hand, it would mean NYS losing a lot of tax revenue; on the other, it would reduce state expenses significantly. No one's exactly sure which way the balance would ultimately tip, though.



Quote:But anyway, it's no surprise that the Spanish national government isn't too pleased with this referendum and has deemed it illegal. Yesterday (day before yesterday?) the Spanish government raided Catalonian government buildings, private owned buildings, they even raided the mail service and have arrested 12 government officials. Oh and the they deployed 7,000 troops (or Policemen?) to Catalonia.

Government entities' first priority is self-preservation. Knee-jerk reaction is not surprising.

--
Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-09-2017, 11:53 PM
RE: Catalonia Referendum.
I don't think tribalism is the way to go.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Minimalist's post
23-09-2017, 12:28 AM
RE: Catalonia Referendum.
(22-09-2017 11:53 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  I don't think tribalism is the way to go.

Tell that to the middle eastern or African countries that got fucked over because some western power decided where to draw a line on a map.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes earmuffs's post
23-09-2017, 01:40 PM
RE: Catalonia Referendum.
(23-09-2017 12:28 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(22-09-2017 11:53 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  I don't think tribalism is the way to go.

Tell that to the middle eastern or African countries that got fucked over because some western power decided where to draw a line on a map.

Like it or not, this is the world we live in. The lines *did* get drawn, and we have to live with the consequences. Which... tribalism doesn't help with.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like morondog's post
25-09-2017, 01:36 PM
RE: Catalonia Referendum.
(23-09-2017 01:40 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(23-09-2017 12:28 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Tell that to the middle eastern or African countries that got fucked over because some western power decided where to draw a line on a map.

Like it or not, this is the world we live in. The lines *did* get drawn, and we have to live with the consequences. Which... tribalism doesn't help with.

We don't need the lines. What we need is respect for other human beings.

--
Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Dr H's post
25-09-2017, 02:08 PM
RE: Catalonia Referendum.
(25-09-2017 01:36 PM)Dr H Wrote:  
(23-09-2017 01:40 PM)morondog Wrote:  Like it or not, this is the world we live in. The lines *did* get drawn, and we have to live with the consequences. Which... tribalism doesn't help with.

We don't need the lines. What we need is respect for other human beings.

... Sometimes you're a hardarse, sometimes you're a hippie. What the fuck your comment means I have no clue. Are you saying that since borders in Africa were decided arbitrarily they should be erased and we should all come together and sing happy songs? Because it ain't practical and it ain't happening any time soon. Maybe when there's a world state. But the world state won't be nice anyway, it'll purely function to keep the masses down.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-09-2017, 02:09 PM
RE: Catalonia Referendum.
I have a Catalan friend and I've had many conversations with him about this.

The thing is, Spain is basically a group of different cultures that were forcefully joined together and are slowly being assimilated. They are worried their culture will vanish and they don't feel connected with the rest of Spain.

There are also many other political and social issues he mentioned that I can't remember right now, but I remember there was something about people working in hospitals not being required to speak Catalan, even though there are still people in Catalonia who only speak Catalan. Or something equally stupid and dangerous.

"Behind every great pirate, there is a great butt."
-Guybrush Threepwood-
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes undergroundp's post
25-09-2017, 02:19 PM
RE: Catalonia Referendum.
(22-09-2017 08:14 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Thoughts? Particularly our European brethren.

Couple of things. Same as with the scottish referendum - some years ago, the situation has drastically changed since then - Catalonia would be out of the EU the moment they declare independence and are recognized as an independent state. They'd have to apply for membership, and the process for joining would start over, probably taking a decade or so.

I'd say they still have the right to do that, same as the Kurds or the Scots, but you can't mention the Kurds in the same breath as the other two. The Kurds have been pushed around and seperated among four nations not being home for eternity.

[Image: Labrador%20and%20Title.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-09-2017, 02:21 PM
RE: Catalonia Referendum.
Hmm. Can see why the Spanish government would be nervous about allowing a vote then. If the EU has another knock like Brexit it might disintegrate without too much further prodding.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: