Catholic Church to train more Exorcists
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04-03-2018, 11:44 AM
RE: Catholic Church to train more Exorcists
(01-03-2018 10:44 PM)Hobosapiens Wrote:  Sorry for the divergence. In 1990, I believe, I sat on a jury. The defendant was accused of murder of an eight-year-old girl. His defense was that he'd taken too many drugs... a little weed, a little cocaine...(proven; yes, he had "some" in his system) and he thus had delusions that "demons" were telling him to attack his wife's kids with a knife. Demons?? We, as the jury, sent that fucker to prison for 25 years. I wish we could have done more, but that was the most we could do with CA law.
I have a personal story much like this only no one died. My Ex-wife ...
the religious one out of the two of us, who pushed for our marriage, than because I worked more hours than she did, I was no fun for not wanting to go out late at night, with two kids at home, so she did by herself ,which I'm not the type to tell someone what they can and can't do, then she started cheating on me ... ironic, but ANYWAY ...
A few years after our divorce she was being medicated for I don't know what for sure and on this particular evening she had smoked some weed as well, which I know she had done often having a license for it.
She got a call from a friend of hers and needed a ride from Florida, so she leaves town and starts heading south. She gets to the Indiana border and had had a few cups of coffee she added into the mix. She freaked out and hit 5 mail boxes , two telephone poles (side swiped one and the crashed ended in the second), a couple cars (also side swiped) and a person. The person wasn't badly hurt, I'm told that to calm her down the police just told her she ran over his foot. But because of her mental state they took her to the hospital for an exam.
She accused the cops and than later the hospital staff of being demons and trying to impregnate her with the anti-christ , or another demon , not sure which. And that she was in a holding cell and bleeding all over the floor, which didn't happen, and later at the hospital she was in a shower room bleeding all over the floor again, which didn't happen, both failed attempts I guess she was saying.
However this delusion went on for a few weeks. Long after everything was out of her system
After a week in the psych-ward the doctors let her out. She pretended to be normal and said what they wanted to hear. But come next weekend she was suppose to have a visit with our daughter, we only share one kid, she calls me late at night and says that their is someone sneaking around her house and that i need to get over there. So i go, the kids are asleep in her bed and she is hysterical in the living room, i look around the house and see nothing. She asks me to stay so I say sure i'll sleep on the couch. But after a few minutes the demon talk started again.
There is more but this story has gone on long enough.
Needless to say there was some court involvement. For some reason the states attorney couldn't get her doctors down there so I had to testify what i saw, both at the the hospital when i took our daughter to visit her and later at her house after her release.
The judge decided, because her lawyer pushed this as a defense, that the weed was to blame for the whole thing. That her prescription should be taken away ... and that was it.

I think covering stories or making judgements about the religious aspect of this being to blame would just upset the natural order of things and that is why people pretend that it isn't the problem.

Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule Friedrich Nietzsche
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not a truth Marcus Aurelius
I don't want to believe. I want to know Carl Sagan
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04-03-2018, 12:02 PM (This post was last modified: 04-03-2018 12:06 PM by zankhellendros.)
RE: Catholic Church to train more Exorcists
The persistent presence of religion is attributed to two things in my book.
1st - the fear of death
2nd - the need to control, both for the leaders who abuse this position and the followers who are to afraid to be responsible for and/or lacking the ambition to blaze their own paths
( not in this order necessarily )

And the majority of congregations, who for the most part, don't give the racket a bad name by just going through the motions and keep a low profile. Holding no extreme views in either direction.
The leaders don't do anything shady, aside from perpetuating the delusion, and the congregates don't push any hateful agendas, aside from being the shield the evil f@ckrs stand behind to do their hate speakin and worse.

Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule Friedrich Nietzsche
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not a truth Marcus Aurelius
I don't want to believe. I want to know Carl Sagan
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04-03-2018, 12:11 PM
RE: Catholic Church to train more Exorcists
(04-03-2018 12:02 PM)zankhellendros Wrote:  The persistent presence of religion is attributed to two things in my book.
1st - the fear of death
2nd - the need to control, both for the leaders who abuse this position and the followers who are to afraid to be responsible for and/or lacking the ambition to blaze their own paths
( not in this order necessarily )

And the majority of congregations, who for the most part, don't give the racket a bad name by just going through the motions and keep a low profile. Holding no extreme views in either direction.
The leaders don't do anything shady, aside from perpetuating the delusion, and the congregates don't push any hateful agendas, aside from being the shield the evil f@ckrs stand behind to do their hate speakin and worse.

I would say that indoctrination is most important factor. There is also something in Marx quote about religion being opiate of the masses I suppose.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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04-03-2018, 12:27 PM
RE: Catholic Church to train more Exorcists
(04-03-2018 12:11 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  I would say that indoctrination is most important factor. There is also something in Marx quote about religion being opiate of the masses I suppose.

I think the fear of hell in the indoctrination is the fear of death. And the promise of eternal life, I mean, who would say no to the possibility. But I can't argue with you on that being so similar to my line of thought on it

Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule Friedrich Nietzsche
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not a truth Marcus Aurelius
I don't want to believe. I want to know Carl Sagan
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04-03-2018, 12:34 PM
RE: Catholic Church to train more Exorcists
(04-03-2018 12:27 PM)zankhellendros Wrote:  
(04-03-2018 12:11 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  I would say that indoctrination is most important factor. There is also something in Marx quote about religion being opiate of the masses I suppose.

I think the fear of hell in the indoctrination is the fear of death. And the promise of eternal life, I mean, who would say no to the possibility. But I can't argue with you on that being so similar to my line of thought on it

I said nothing about fear of hell also I would say no to the possibility of eternal life.

Fear of death is a factor in the continued existence of religions I suppose but primary guilt lies with childhood indoctrination I would say. Without it who would think that talking snakes or multi account god's are real?

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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04-03-2018, 03:05 PM
RE: Catholic Church to train more Exorcists
(04-03-2018 12:34 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  {SNIP} also I would say no to the possibility of eternal life. {SNIP}
Depending on the conditions I would consider it
Offtopic

Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule Friedrich Nietzsche
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not a truth Marcus Aurelius
I don't want to believe. I want to know Carl Sagan
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04-03-2018, 03:07 PM
RE: Catholic Church to train more Exorcists
(04-03-2018 03:05 PM)zankhellendros Wrote:  
(04-03-2018 12:34 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  {SNIP} also I would say no to the possibility of eternal life. {SNIP}
Depending on the conditions I would consider it
Offtopic

To each his own.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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04-03-2018, 03:32 PM
RE: Catholic Church to train more Exorcists
(03-03-2018 09:42 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  It's very clever marketing.

Not clever enough.

[Image: 532a4d2e6e6d1fe19fa7a4ebf51f6803.jpg]

An extra #% in your tithing = more demon armor!
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

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04-03-2018, 03:44 PM
RE: Catholic Church to train more Exorcists
Does it pay well? And where can I get an application?

See here they are, the bruises, some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. -JF
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04-03-2018, 05:42 PM (This post was last modified: 04-03-2018 05:49 PM by Aractus.)
RE: Catholic Church to train more Exorcists
(01-03-2018 08:12 AM)zankhellendros Wrote:  I could never figure out how this is still a thing, until it talked about people wanting to put a shaky past with the church behind them.

Their messiah, Jesus Christ, was an exorcist and he taught his disciples to do the same. Old ancient ritualistic pseudomedicine. At least they don't deny the science of psychology like Scientology does.

(01-03-2018 08:33 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  This is a Pope and Church dedicated not only to the continuation of, but the expansion of programs specifically designed to torture the mentally and physically ill and vulnerable under their influence.

Well their own guidelines are supposed to stop that. The reality is that pharmacotherapy and psychotherapy are not always able to alleviate mental illness, and people will necessarily try other avenues out of desperation. I don't think that categorisation is correct, I know several Protestants (yes Protestants) including one clergyman who have normal mental health and have at different times in their lives opted for an exorcism. Obviously performed by Protestant clergy, so not Roman Catholic exorcism, and as far as I know they all felt the experience was worthwhile. It would certainly never be forced upon anyone, nor do they target the mentally ill in my experience. The main candidates seemed to be people struggling with their faith.

I would say the sacrament is no more unintelligible than Baptism, or the Eucharist. As long as it's not harmful to people's mental health, and my albeit outsider experience (I've never attended/witnessed an exorcism sacrament) suggests that usually it's not, then I don't have a problem with people practising their beliefs.

Oh and since others have commented about payment, no the sessions that I know about were not paid events, and did not take a collection either. You don't pay for baptism, so I don't understand why people would think you need to pay for other sacraments either. Sure I understand such payments used to be part of the RCC in the Middle Ages, that's one issue that led to the Reformation. Interestingly enough you do have to pay for weddings, I wonder if a Christian could successfully convince their priest that paying for religious services is a no-no and successfully get him or her to waive the fees?

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