Catholic Wanting Real Answers
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13-02-2015, 04:06 PM
Catholic Wanting Real Answers
One month ago I told my parents I moved in with my boyfriend. My boyfriend and I had dated for over a year, and are always by each other’s side. My boyfriend comes from an Atheist background. His mom knows how close him and I are. My parents are Roman Catholics (so Catholic, they would go the Latin Rite masses if they could). I could not express nor reveal how much my boyfriend meant to me. I know they would say (and now have said ): I cannot have sexual relations outside of marriage. Pre-marital relationships divorce more than married ones. The Bible says it is wrong. If I have a child (and “because pre-marital relationships have a high rate of divorce”) that he or she would grow up with a lot of psychological strain and such effects as depressions etc.

My mother told me that “I am unhappy” (even if I “don’t realize it”), and will remain unhappy because it is wrong.

They are convinced I am going through something temporary, and that “God has a plan”.

For my 24th birthday they sent me a card:
“For I know the plans I have for you,” says the Lord, “They are plans for good and not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope” JER 29:11.

I listened to my parents my whole life and dared not speak up. I listened and discussed with some of my close atheist friends, but found it hard to articulate basic Christain ideas (ideas that crumble easily under my friend’s opposing statements and questions). My faith is suppose to be on ROCK and yet I feel like I am in quicksand of misinformation, contradictory stories, and false claims. I feel I have had the wool pulled over my eyes.

I am doing my best to research and understand Catholic and Atheist perspectives on arguments. But I need help.

PLEASE: does any one have articles / books / audiobooks / other podcasts — any and all reliable** sources for such things as:

1. Where did the Bible come from and can we trust it?

2. Truth about miracles such as weeping statues, the Eucharist being the true body and blood (Lanciano 8th century bleeding Eucharist miracle), Our Lady of Guadalupe ‘tilma’ maintaining a living human body temperature, Shroud of Terrain, etc.

3. What are actual polls about relationships stating out there? I have read a few but wondering what polls my parents are giving as their information about divorce rates differ from my research.

There is so much information out there. I’m hoping that perhaps, with your support, I may be able to read the best sources.

If there is anything scientifically supporting (or not supporting) Catholic recognized miracles, please help me find the links. I need truth. Please help!
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13-02-2015, 04:19 PM
RE: Catholic Wanting Real Answers
(13-02-2015 04:06 PM)Suzanne Wrote:  One month ago I told my parents I moved in with my boyfriend. My boyfriend and I had dated for over a year, and are always by each other’s side. My boyfriend comes from an Atheist background. His mom knows how close him and I are. My parents are Roman Catholics (so Catholic, they would go the Latin Rite masses if they could). I could not express nor reveal how much my boyfriend meant to me. I know they would say (and now have said ): I cannot have sexual relations outside of marriage. Pre-marital relationships divorce more than married ones. The Bible says it is wrong. If I have a child (and “because pre-marital relationships have a high rate of divorce”) that he or she would grow up with a lot of psychological strain and such effects as depressions etc.

My mother told me that “I am unhappy” (even if I “don’t realize it”), and will remain unhappy because it is wrong.

They are convinced I am going through something temporary, and that “God has a plan”.

For my 24th birthday they sent me a card:
“For I know the plans I have for you,” says the Lord, “They are plans for good and not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope” JER 29:11.

I listened to my parents my whole life and dared not speak up. I listened and discussed with some of my close atheist friends, but found it hard to articulate basic Christain ideas (ideas that crumble easily under my friend’s opposing statements and questions). My faith is suppose to be on ROCK and yet I feel like I am in quicksand of misinformation, contradictory stories, and false claims. I feel I have had the wool pulled over my eyes.

I am doing my best to research and understand Catholic and Atheist perspectives on arguments. But I need help.

PLEASE: does any one have articles / books / audiobooks / other podcasts — any and all reliable** sources for such things as:

1. Where did the Bible come from and can we trust it?

2. Truth about miracles such as weeping statues, the Eucharist being the true body and blood (Lanciano 8th century bleeding Eucharist miracle), Our Lady of Guadalupe ‘tilma’ maintaining a living human body temperature, Shroud of Terrain, etc.

3. What are actual polls about relationships stating out there? I have read a few but wondering what polls my parents are giving as their information about divorce rates differ from my research.

There is so much information out there. I’m hoping that perhaps, with your support, I may be able to read the best sources.

If there is anything scientifically supporting (or not supporting) Catholic recognized miracles, please help me find the links. I need truth. Please help!

Welcome.

1. The bible was a multi step process of a fabrication. OT was created by Judaen priests in 575-550 BCE. The NT is a product of largely anonymous authors who write about things they never witnessed..all based on hearsay and urban legend. Click and read these..

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid674774

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid674776

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid674792

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid674837

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid674839

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid674847

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid674871

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid674873

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid675024

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid677945

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid685368


2. There are no miracles. It is all chance, circumstance or/and self delusion or hallucination. If one believes something strong enough, and looks for it long enough, one will find it, whether it exists or not..

3. Poppycock. The majority of America for example is religious, and the nationwide divorce rate is exceptionally high...nothing to do with being an atheist or theist.

Books I personally use and recommend..

Atheist (all of these are fantastic books):

Ehrman, Bart. Misquoting Jesus: The story behind who changed the bible and why. New York, Harper Collins. 2005. Print.

Carrier, Richard, On the historicity of jesus: why we might have reason for doubt. Sheffield, England: Sheffield Phoenix press, 2014. Print.

Wells, S. (2013) The skeptics annotated Bible. New York. SAB Books, LLC.

Hitchens, Christopher. God is not great: How religion poisons everything. New York, Hatchette Book Group inc. 2009. Print.

Hitchens, Christopher. Hitch 22: A memoir. New York, Hatchette Book Group inc. 2010. Print.

Hitchens, Christopher. The portable atheist: essential readings for the nonbeliever. Philadelphia, PA., Da Capo Press. 2007. Print.

Boghossian, Peter. A manual for creating atheists. Durham, NC. Pitchstone Publishing. 2013. Print.

Barker, Dan. Godless: how an evangelical preacher became one of america's leading atheists. Berkeley, CA. Bang Printing. 2008. Print.

Crossman, J. D. The power of parable: How fiction by jesus became fiction about jesus. New York. Harper Collins Publishers. 2012. Print.

Mills, David. Atheist Universe: The thinking person's answer to christian fundamentalism, makes the case against intelligent design. Berkeley, CA. Bang Printing. 2006. Print.

Pessin, Andrew. The god question: What famous thinkers from plato to dawkins have said about the divine. Oxford, England. Oneworld Publications. 2009. Print.

Bierlein, J.F. Parallel Myths: A fascinating look at the common threads woven through the world's greatest myths-and the central role they have played through time. New York. Ballantine Publishing Group. 1994. Print.

Helms, Randel. Gospel fictions. New York. Prometheus Books. 1988. Print.


Neutral (sociologist)
Zuckerman, Phil. Society without god. New York. New York University press. 2008. Print.

Hope this helps

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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13-02-2015, 04:33 PM
RE: Catholic Wanting Real Answers
That list looks quite good -- thank you for taking the time to gather and type all of these resources!
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13-02-2015, 04:43 PM
RE: Catholic Wanting Real Answers
(13-02-2015 04:33 PM)Suzanne Wrote:  That list looks quite good -- thank you for taking the time to gather and type all of these resources!

You're welcome, if you have any more questions, want some insight etc just let me know via message etc.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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13-02-2015, 04:49 PM
RE: Catholic Wanting Real Answers
I'm sorry but anyone who remains a catholic after all the scandals that have come out about those bastards is simply too far gone to worry about.

They have completely swallowed the Kool-Aid and you are not going to change them.

Live your life for yourself.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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13-02-2015, 05:25 PM
RE: Catholic Wanting Real Answers
If you don't want to buy and read books yet, I suggest looking up Bart Ehrman on youtube. He has several lectures and is one of the most renowned biblical scholars. He also has written several books on this sort of thing.

On a more personal note, my wife of over 11 years is a believer as are pretty much everyone in our families. I am the only open heathen. Just be true to yourself.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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13-02-2015, 05:28 PM (This post was last modified: 13-02-2015 05:33 PM by Grasshopper.)
RE: Catholic Wanting Real Answers
(13-02-2015 04:49 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  I'm sorry but anyone who remains a catholic after all the scandals that have come out about those bastards is simply too far gone to worry about.

They have completely swallowed the Kool-Aid and you are not going to change them.

Live your life for yourself.

I don't see the connection. The fact that some priests are dirty old men says nothing about the validity (or lack thereof) of the religion. Catholicism, like any other religion, has to stand or fall on the merits of its theology -- not on the behavior of a handful of people. In my opinion, it falls anyway, like all the other ones -- because the theology is silly. But if it were true, it would be true regardless of the behavior of any of its priests. Sexual scandals are red herrings, and can actually be found in many religions.

To the OP: I will second what Good Without God said. The more you learn about Catholicism and what it teaches, the less believable it is. One of the surest roads to atheism is to actually read the Bible -- all of it. It's hard to escape from years of indoctrination, but I did it (I was raised Catholic), and so have many others.
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13-02-2015, 06:38 PM
RE: Catholic Wanting Real Answers
Welcome to our community. Hug

We also, in addition to what goodwithoutgod wrote, we have this:
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...ce-Library

It's a long thread but also full of some good info.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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13-02-2015, 07:52 PM
RE: Catholic Wanting Real Answers
The shroud of Terrain? You mean the shroud of Turin? If yes, then Carbon-14 dating has shown that it is from the middle ages. As I understand it, not even the catholic church recognizes it as the "real shroud". "Our Lady of Guadalupe ‘tilma’ maintaining a living human body temperature", well, this is a thermodynamic impossibility. If it is truly happening, they should allow scientists in there to study this as this would be the answer to our energy problems, but then again, this is a thermodynamic impossibility.

If we as atheists don't believe in miracles or the supernatural, it is because none has ever been proven under carefully observed controlled conditions. None.
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13-02-2015, 08:11 PM
RE: Catholic Wanting Real Answers
(13-02-2015 04:06 PM)Suzanne Wrote:  I cannot have sexual relations outside of marriage. Pre-marital relationships divorce more than married ones. The Bible says it is wrong. If I have a child (and “because pre-marital relationships have a high rate of divorce”) that he or she would grow up with a lot of psychological strain and such effects as depressions etc.

I haven't seen any studies, but I imagine that any difference would be mostly attributed to religious stigma associated with divorce that would be more frequently found in those who abstained from premarital relations. I seriously doubt that any discrepancy would be due to varying levels of happiness.
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