Catholic Wanting Real Answers
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13-02-2015, 10:05 PM
RE: Catholic Wanting Real Answers
(13-02-2015 08:11 PM)WeAreTheCosmos Wrote:  
(13-02-2015 04:06 PM)Suzanne Wrote:  I cannot have sexual relations outside of marriage. Pre-marital relationships divorce more than married ones. The Bible says it is wrong. If I have a child (and “because pre-marital relationships have a high rate of divorce”) that he or she would grow up with a lot of psychological strain and such effects as depressions etc.

I haven't seen any studies, but I imagine that any difference would be mostly attributed to religious stigma associated with divorce that would be more frequently found in those who abstained from premarital relations. I seriously doubt that any discrepancy would be due to varying levels of happiness.

Sample size of one. We lived together and had loads of sex before marriage. If anything we knew we were compatible in both ways. Looking back we really didn't need a marriage certificate at all. Made no difference in our staying together or behavior.

It will be a long time coming, but I believe one day marriage will be obsolete.
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13-02-2015, 11:02 PM
RE: Catholic Wanting Real Answers
(13-02-2015 10:05 PM)freetoreason Wrote:  
(13-02-2015 08:11 PM)WeAreTheCosmos Wrote:  I haven't seen any studies, but I imagine that any difference would be mostly attributed to religious stigma associated with divorce that would be more frequently found in those who abstained from premarital relations. I seriously doubt that any discrepancy would be due to varying levels of happiness.

Sample size of one. We lived together and had loads of sex before marriage. If anything we knew we were compatible in both ways. Looking back we really didn't need a marriage certificate at all. Made no difference in our staying together or behavior.

It will be a long time coming, but I believe one day marriage will be obsolete.

I second this. My wife and i were very familiar with each other and we knew we were compatible. I think that it made the transition to married life much easier.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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13-02-2015, 11:26 PM
RE: Catholic Wanting Real Answers
This completely refutes the "living together causes more divorce" tripe your parents were lying to you about, which doesn't surprise me since most theists I know lie to get what they want.

http://time.com/20386/how-shacking-up-be...s-success/

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14-02-2015, 12:12 AM (This post was last modified: 14-02-2015 03:31 AM by DLJ.)
RE: Catholic Wanting Real Answers
No offence intended to all the previous reply-ers who have offered you answers to your question ... which are all valid btw, but if you use any of these arguments you'll be heading down the wrong path.

That path ... that of trying to use rational arguments and evidence to demonstrate that your parents are wrong ... will lead to disunity, anger, strife, emotional torment for all parties.

You are dealing with a flawed epistemology (i.e. Faith) and you need to undermine that before you can make progress using an evidence-based epistemology.

Step back and reconsider... is that your real objective?

Please correct me if I'm wrong but isn't your real objective more about getting your parents to accept the relationship and the living arrangements?

If so, the path you should take is one of demonstrating the benefits - love, happiness, contentment, greater likelihood of grandchildren Wink - of the new status quo.

If this is the case, the process to use is not one of debate but instead one of Relationship Management.

Lemme know if you'd like me to expand on the process of Relationship Management (3 goals, 5 practices and 24 activities).

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14-02-2015, 12:34 AM
RE: Catholic Wanting Real Answers
(13-02-2015 04:06 PM)Suzanne Wrote:  ... Wrote lots of painful seeming personal stuff.....


Hug
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14-02-2015, 01:06 AM
RE: Catholic Wanting Real Answers
Hi there! I'm sorry your parents are being aggressive about putting religion in between you.

The thing is, divorce rates are seen as bad but they don't tell the whole story.

Religious beliefs around marriage treat it as the pillar of love and something that should never be discarded. This means putting marriage ABOVE happiness. Despite how things may not work out or even get outright abusive, they will keep together and tell themselves it is for the greater good or its for the kids. Marriage is commonly attributed as the thing to strive for and keep socially, and abandoning it is seen as a great misdeed against a God or society.

So, those non-religious in nature may or may not have more divorce rates. However, that's not a bad thing; you're given way more freedom over your own happiness and not trapped into a religious belief system that condemns you for a divorce from someone you don't love anymore.

And: people are trying to project their ideals on you because they are afraid and ignorant. Don't let their pleas convince you that your relationship is not going to work out. They aren't you; they don't know what they are missing by hiding behind religion.

Anyways, I hope you the best in your self exploration and adventure to find what's the truth.
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14-02-2015, 01:33 AM (This post was last modified: 14-02-2015 01:37 AM by kim.)
RE: Catholic Wanting Real Answers
Hi Suzanne, you sound a bit tense. Maybe hang out here a while and a lot of the answers you seek might develop on their own.
Meanwhile, relax and listen to Julia Sweeny performing Letting Go Of God....



You might find some of it familiar.
I think you could use a laugh. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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14-02-2015, 09:28 AM
RE: Catholic Wanting Real Answers
It seems to me that you have at least a couple of issues. First, you appear to be struggling with your faith (hence the seeking truth). Second, it also appears to me that your parents are putting the guilt thin on you. Third, you seem to not want to disappoint your parents. Fourth, you love your boyfriend and your relationship with him and you are worried about the implications for your parents. They are all somewhat interwoven as well which makes this more complicated.

DLJ, I think nailed it on the head. If you want the truth, you need to address the issue of how you come to truth. Peter Boghosian has a great video on youtube about it that will hopefully help you in thinking about how to come to truth. With that skill set in mind, you will still need to wrestle down your beliefs. This is not easy, but it is necessary. Goodwithoutgod has a phenomenal knowledge about the historicity of Jesus. He is a great source of facts. With your new skill set of how to come to truth and his information, you should easily come to it. I wish I had had access to Goodwithoutgod when I went trough my deconversion. I also agree with DLJ that butting heads with your parents and questioning their faith is not going to be constructive.

I am former catholic. I was indoctrinated from a young age and even went to a private catholic school. I bought it hook line and sinker, so much so that I still remember vividly in my head the first time I was on top of a girl thinking that I was sinning and wondering what was going to happen to me. I am in a much healthier place now. I wish the same for you.

Sorry my first post came out so terse. People here do really care.
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14-02-2015, 09:39 AM
RE: Catholic Wanting Real Answers
Not to distract from the main point here but just as an aside...

(14-02-2015 09:28 AM)Iñigo Wrote:  ...
I was on top of a girl
...
I am in a much healthier place now.
...

Consider

Underneath?

Angel

Sorry. I just couldn't resist that. Blush

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14-02-2015, 12:38 PM
RE: Catholic Wanting Real Answers
Hahaha, Underneath is good also.
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