Catholic sex abuse crisis, 10 years later
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
11-07-2012, 03:24 PM
RE: Catholic sex abuse crisis, 10 years later
(11-07-2012 03:16 PM)Jeff Wrote:  That raises another question for the believers - when god watches people having sex is it like watching porn? Does he enjoy it? Which porn category would god be into? I think maybe MILFs or BDSM. What do you think? If god watches people making porn, and watches people watching porn, that's A LOT of porn.
Apparently he likes watching priests molest young boys or he would put a stop to it.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Thomas's post
11-07-2012, 03:36 PM
RE: Catholic sex abuse crisis, 10 years later
(11-07-2012 03:16 PM)Jeff Wrote:  
(11-07-2012 01:27 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The constant use of the term "pedophile", instead of the more accurate term for the majority of these cases,"ephebophile", is an attempt to mask the huge numbers of homosexual priests, in the Roman church.
I think this is interesting and I have heard something about it before, but more along the lines that the issue was not just pedophilia but also homosexual behavior. I don't think I've heard of girls being molested in the context of the priest scandal but maybe it has and I haven't noticed. I guess things are pretty bad when your PR machine is aimed at making the public think priests are just pedophiles and not gay.

I wasn't familiar with the term "ephebophile" but wiki defines it as:

Ephebophilia refers to a primary or exclusive sexual interest of adults in mid-to-late adolescents, generally ages 15 to 19.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephebophili...ft-Ebing-0

I think many of the molested boys have been younger than that.

But back to my original question, I just can't imagine being a priest and acting on a sexual urge if I really believed there was a god who could see me and would judge me upon my death. Just strengthens my general assumption that most believers don't really believe, they're just bet hedgers.

That raises another question for the believers - when god watches people having sex is it like watching porn? Does he enjoy it? Which porn category would god be into? I think maybe MILFs or BDSM. What do you think? If god watches people making porn, and watches people watching porn, that's A LOT of porn.
1. If all you have to do is go to confession, the judgement thing is rendered irrelevant. The slate is wiped clean, and guilt removed, (supposedly).

2. I cannot imagine looking at a 15 year old, and thinking, (whatever else may be going on), that, as an adult, whatever I had in mind, "it" would/could be about what is best for that person. So it raises the whole question of not just a (disordered) "action", but "character", in general. It's simply unthinkable. Thus what you're saying, isn't, in my opinion, so much about belief in god(s), but about a more fundamental belief in the value of another person. So, I don't get it. The label is irrelevant. It's a "mis-wiring", not a "disease". It's really a lack of fundamental respect for another human.

3. It also is an absence of the "parental", (protective), instinct. Why is that missing ? (That's the interesting question to me).

4. Ain't no gods watching nothin', so I never thought about that angle.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Bucky Ball's post
11-07-2012, 04:01 PM
RE: Catholic sex abuse crisis, 10 years later
(11-07-2012 03:36 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  2. I cannot imagine looking at a 15 year old, and thinking, (whatever else may be going on), that, as an adult, whatever I had in mind, "it" would/could be about what is best for that person. So it raises the whole question of not just a (disordered) "action", but "character", in general. It's simply unthinkable. Thus what you're saying, isn't, in my opinion, so much about belief in god(s), but about a more fundamental belief in the value of another person. So, I don't get it. The label is irrelevant. It's a "mis-wiring", not a "disease". It's really a lack of fundamental respect for another human.
Yes I understand your point and agree with it. I think it indicates a lack of empathy, which I believe indicates a sociopath. That raises a thought that joining the priesthood might be attractive to sociopaths, who despite lacking empathy, will often know to do the right thing in response to an emotional condition based on what they "know" to be the correct response, as opposed to "feeling through empathy" what is the correct response. Being a priests presents one with many emotional situations but a very limited range of responses - recite this prayer, read this verse, etc.

As to your point about a lack of parental protective instinct, I think that's also consistent with sociopathy, as explained here:

Sociopaths do not have the ability to experience emotion and do not form
real attachments to people and places. Without the ability to form
real emotional attachments, sociopaths do not have any sense of
obligation-no moral obligation or financial obligation. They view
people as objects that can be exploited and manipulated.

Perhaps the dynamic with a diddling priest is that he is a sociopath and believes in god, but doesn't think he will be judged harshly by god for diddling because god placed the diddlee in his midst to be exploited and manipulated.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Jeff's post
11-07-2012, 05:06 PM
RE: Catholic sex abuse crisis, 10 years later
Welcome to Ireland.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-07-2012, 06:28 PM
RE: Catholic sex abuse crisis, 10 years later
(11-07-2012 03:21 PM)StatiK Wrote:  
(11-07-2012 02:25 PM)N.E.OhioAtheist Wrote:  I was one of them victims. I'm 54 years old and still have the scars from that rat bastard.


Wow, that's heavy. How long after the abuse did you question your faith? How did you feel when so many victims started coming forward?
I was 30 years old when I started to question my faith. I never wanted to go back to the Catholic church. I told my father and got slapped in the face for lying about the Father. I was stunned and hurt by my own dad not believing me. I refused to ever go back to the church. My mother took me to a new church.

History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a
free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their
political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their
own purpose. ~ Thomas Jefferson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes N.E.OhioAtheist's post
11-07-2012, 06:30 PM
RE: Catholic sex abuse crisis, 10 years later
I really don't like talking about this. I will have a hard time sleeping tonight. NO MORE questions please.

History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a
free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their
political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their
own purpose. ~ Thomas Jefferson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-07-2012, 11:17 PM (This post was last modified: 11-07-2012 11:22 PM by TarzanSmith.)
RE: Catholic sex abuse crisis, 10 years later
Quote:

Quote:[quote]Bucky Ball Wrote: http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid1356162. I cannot imagine looking at a 15 year old, and thinking, (whatever else may be going on), that, as an adult, whatever I had in mind, "it" would/could be about what is best for that person. So it raises the whole question of not just a (disordered) "action", but "character", in general. It's simply unthinkable. Thus what you're saying, isn't, in my opinion, so much about belief in god(s), but about a more fundamental belief in the value of another person. So, I don't get it. The label is irrelevant. It's a "mis-wiring", not a "disease". It's really a lack of fundamental respect for another human.
Yes I understand your point and agree with it. I think it indicates a lack of empathy, which I believe indicates a sociopath. That raises a thought that joining the priesthood might be attractive to sociopaths, who despite lacking empathy, will often know to do the right thing in response to an emotional condition based on what they "know" to be the correct response, as opposed to "feeling through empathy" what is the correct response. Being a priests presents one with many emotional situations but a very limited range of responses - recite this prayer, read this verse, etc.

As to your point about a lack of parental protective instinct, I think that's also consistent with sociopathy, as explained here:

Sociopaths do not have the ability to experience emotion and do not form
real attachments to people and places. Without the ability to form
real emotional attachments, sociopaths do not have any sense of
obligation-no moral obligation or financial obligation. They view
people as objects that can be exploited and manipulated.

Perhaps the dynamic with a diddling priest is that he is a sociopath and believes in god, but doesn't think he will be judged harshly by god for diddling because god placed the diddlee in his midst to be exploited and manipulated.


I disagree with your assessment that pedophiles lack empathy. From what I have seen many of the pedophiles have no intention of hurting there victims as well as they do not consider it a damaging experience. Many believe that it's the modern view of sex that causes the harm. The counter that many children don't see it as wrong until someone tells them its wrong. Interestingly enough I find pedophiles to be the most empathetic people on 4chan.

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
- my friend Marc
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-07-2012, 05:34 AM
RE: Catholic sex abuse crisis, 10 years later
Can we all say "Mental Illness" and leave it at that?

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Thomas's post
12-07-2012, 07:37 AM
RE: Catholic sex abuse crisis, 10 years later
(11-07-2012 11:17 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  I disagree with your assessment that pedophiles lack empathy. From what I have seen many of the pedophiles have no intention of hurting there victims as well as they do not consider it a damaging experience. Many believe that it's the modern view of sex that causes the harm. The counter that many children don't see it as wrong until someone tells them its wrong. Interestingly enough I find pedophiles to be the most empathetic people on 4chan.
I would be interested to hear more about what experiences you have had to observe that pedophiles have no intention of hurting their victims. I don't think the idea that "many believe it's the modern view of sex that causes the harm" is supportable. I don't know what 4chan is but I think you may be confusing manipulation with empathy.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Jeff's post
25-02-2013, 12:15 AM
RE: Catholic sex abuse crisis, 10 years later
A hypothesis...

Priests take a vow of celibacy. The church doesn't acknowledge homosexual sex as sex but, rather, as sin. Priests are human and they have sexual urges and sexual urges can only be suppressed for so long.

Thus, the rationale for molesting a young boys has the following benefits:

1) Young children are easy to manipulate and therefore are less inclined to report the crime.
2) Homosexual sex is a sin but it does not break the celibacy vow.
3) Therefore, sex with young boys minimizes one's chances of getting caught and provides a (perceived) means of satisfying sexual urges with a minimum impact on priestly vows.

I don't know a lot about Catholicism but I know that human beings MUST have a rationale for their actions. Sometimes we think things through, make a plan and then act and sometimes we just let loose and then make up the story afterward. But whatever the case, we always justify our actions.

I have a sneeking suspicion it's the latter for priests, since religious types are so accustomed to starting from the conclusion and building the story backward. Or, building the backward story... take your pick :-)

What say you people?

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: