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15-05-2014, 06:17 PM
RE: Catholic vs. Christian
When a friend of mine died a long time ago, I was the executrix of his estate and had occasion to deal with his southern, extremely religious family. Having been forewarned, I tried to avoid any religious stuff. But, during a phone call, his aunt asked point blank: "What religion are you?" I said: "Catholic", figuring this would settle it and we could move on and I could get rid of her. There was a VERY long pause and finally she said: "well, at least we believe in the same god". Sounding kind of condescending, too.

I was taken aback but didn't think about it twice - until now.

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15-05-2014, 06:26 PM
RE: Catholic vs. Christian
Catholics consider themselves apart from Christianity. They profess their church was begun by Jesus and built upon by saint Peter -- who incidentally they claim as first pope.

Catholics view all other "Christain faiths" to be in error. In truth Protestant in all the flavors did come after, so there's that.


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15-05-2014, 06:52 PM
RE: Catholic vs. Christian
Okaaayyyy.... putting on my fundy hat for just a sec.

Here is the Statement of Faith from my ex-church, Independent Fundamental Baptist. If you know much about Catholicism, you'll see the differences. As you read this, you'll see the mindset in the fundamentalists.

Behold, I bring you.... my former statement of faith:


SECTION 1 - OF THE SCRIPTURES: We believe that the Holy Bible as originally written was verbally, plenarily inspired and the product of Spirit-controlled men; therefore, has truth without any admixture of error for its matter. We believe the Bible to be the true center of Christian union and the supreme standard by which all human conduct, creeds, and opinions shall be tried. (2 Tim. 3:16 & 17; 2 Peter 1:19-21)

SECTION 2 - OF THE TRUE GOD: We believe there is one, and only one, living and true

God, an infinite Spirit, and the maker and Supreme Ruler of Heaven and earth;
inexpressibly glorious in holiness, and worthy of all possible honor, confidence, and love; that in the unity of the Godhead there are three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, equal in every divine perfection, and executing distinct but harmonious offices in the great work of redemption. (Exodus 20:2 & 3; I Cor. 8:6; Rev. 4:11)

SECTION 3 - JESUS CHRIST: We believe in the absolute Deity of the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, that He was divine as no other man can be, being very God of very God; existing from all eternity co-equal with the Father and the Holy Spirit; that He never ceased to be God for one instant and that His humiliation did not consist of laying aside His Deity; that as man, He was miraculously begotten of the Holy Ghost and born of the virgin, Mary. (John 1:1 & 2; 1 John 5:20; Matt. 1:20; Luke 1:26 - 28)

SECTION 4 - OF THE HOLY GHOST: We believe that the Holy Spirit is a divine person, with God the Father and God the Son of the same nature, that He was active in creation; that in His relation to the unbelieving world, He restrains the evil one, until God's purpose is fulfilled; that He convicts of sin, of righteousness, and of judgment; that He is the agent in the New Birth; that He seals, endues, guides, teaches, witnesses, sanctifies, and helps the believer. (John 14:16 & 17; Matt. 28:19; Heb. 9:14; John 14:26; Luke 1:35; John 16:8 - 11; Acts 5:30 - 32; John 3:5 & 6; Eph. 1:14 & 15; Mark 1:8; John 1:33; Acts 11:16; Luke 24:49; Rom. 8:14, 16, 26 & 27)

SECTION 5 - OF THE DEVIL OR SATAN: We believe in the personality of Satan, that he is the unholy god of this age, and the author of all the powers of darkness, and is destined to the judgment of an eternal justice in the lake of fire. (Isa. 14:12 - 16; Ezk. 28:1 - 19; Matt. 4:1 - 3; 2 Cor. 4:4; Rev. 20:10)

SECTION 6 - OF CREATION: We believe that God created the heavens and the earth including all life, "each after its own kind", by direct act, according to the Genesis account; and not by any process of evolution, and that man was created in the image and likeness of God. (Genesis 1:11; Col. 1:16 - 17; John 1:3)

SECTION 7 - OF THE FALL OF MAN: We believe that man was created in innocence under the law of his Maker, but by voluntary transgression, fell from his sinless and happy state in consequence of which all mankind are now sinners, not only by constraint, but by choice; and therefore, under just condemnation without defense or excuse. (Gen. 3:1 - 6 & 24; Rom. 5:10 - 19; Rom. 1:18 & 32)

SECTION 8 -OF THE VIRGIN BIRTH: We believe that Jesus was begotten of the Holy Ghost in a miraculous manner, born of Mary, a virgin, as no other man was ever born or can ever be born of a woman, and that He is both the Son of God and God the Son. (Gen. 3:15; Isa. 7:14; Matt. 1:18 - 25; Luke 1:35; John 1:4)


SECTION 9 - OF THE ATONEMENT OF SIN: We believe that the salvation of sinners
wholly of grace; through the mediatorial offices of the Son of God, Who by the appointment of the Father, freely took upon Him our nature yet without sin, honored the divine law by His personal obedience, and by His death made a full and vicarious atonement for our sins; that His atonement consisted not in setting us an example by His death as a martyr, but was a voluntary substitution of Himself in the sinner's place, the Just dying for the unjust; Christ the Lord, bearing our sin in His own body on the tree; that having risen from the dead, He is now enthroned in Heaven, and uniting in His wonderful person the tenderest sympathies with divine perfection, He is in every way qualified to be a suitable, a compassionate, and all-sufficient Saviour. (Eph. 2:8; Acts 15:11; Rom. 3:24; John 3:16; Matt. 18:11;Phil. 2:7; Heb. 2:14; Isa. 53:4-7; Rom. 3:25; 1 John 4:10; 1 Cor. 15:3; 2 Cor. 5:21)

SECTION 10 - OF THE GRACE IN THE NEW CREATION: We believe that in order to be saved, sinners must be born again; that the new birth is a new creation in Christ Jesus; that it is instantaneous and not a process; that in the new birth, the one dead in trespasses and sins is made a partaker of the divine nature and receives eternal life, the free gift of God, that the new creation is brought about in a manner above our comprehension, solely by the power of the Holy Spirit in connection with divine truth, so as to secure our voluntary obedience to the gospel; that its proper evidence appears in the holy fruits of repentance and faith and newness of life. (John 3:3; 2 Cor. 5:17; 1 John 3:6 & 7; Acts 16:30 - 33; Rom. 6:23; 2 Peter 1:4; Eph. 2:11; 2 Cor. 5:19; Col. 2:13; John 3:8)

SECTION 11 - OF JUSTIFICATION: We believe that the great gospel blessing which Christ secures to such as believe in Him is Justification: (a) That Justification includes the pardon of sin, and the gift of eternal life, on principles of righteousness; (b) That it is bestowed not in consideration of any works of righteousness which we have done; but solely through faith in the Redeemer's blood, His righteousness is imputed to us. (Acts 13:39; Isa. 53:11; Zech 13:1; Rom. 5:9; Rom. 5:1)

SECTION 12 - OF FAITH AND SALVATION: We believe that faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is the only condition of salvation. (Acts 16:31; Eph. 2:8)

SECTION 13 - OF MARRIAGE AND THE HOME: We believe the home was the first institution God provided for man (Genesis 2:18 - 24), and that marriage is a sacred relationship and honorable for all (Hebrews 13:4; 1 Cor. 7:2). Marriage is used as an emblem of the union of Christ and His church (Eph. 5:21 - 23). "What therefore God hath joined together, let no man put asunder". (Mark 10:9)

SECTION 14 - OF CIVIL GOVERNMENT: We believe that civil government is of divine appointment for the interests and good order of human society; that magistrates are to be prayed for, conscientiously honored, and obeyed; except in things opposed to the will of our Lord Jesus Christ Who is the only Lord of the conscience and the coming Prince of the Kings of the earth.
(Rom. 13:1 - 7; 2 Sam. 23:3; Exodus 18:21; Acts 23:5; Matt. 22:21; Acts 5:20; Acts 4:19 & 20; Dan. 3:17 & 18)

SECTION 15 - OF THE LOCAL AND UNIVERSAL CHURCH: We believe that a local church is a congregation of immersed believers; associated by covenant of faith and the fellowship of the Gospel; observing the Ordinances of Christ; governed by His laws; and exercising the gifts, rights and privileges invested in them by His work; that its officers are pastors and deacons whose qualifications, claims and duties are clearly defined in the Scriptures. We believe the true Mission of the church is faithful witnessing of Christ to all men as we have opportunity. We hold that the local church has the absolute right of self-government, free from the interference of any hierarchy of individuals or organizations; and that the one and only superintendent is Christ through the Holy Spirit; that it is Scriptural for true churches to cooperate with each other in contending for the faith and for the furtherance of the Gospel; that each local church is the sole judge of measure and method of its cooperation; on all matters of membership, of policy, of government, of discipline, of benevolence, the will of the local church is final. We believe in the universal church, the Body of Christ, consisting of all who accept Christ as personal Saviour. (Acts 2:41 - 42; 1 Cor. 11:2; Eph. 1:22 - 23; Eph 4:11; Acts 20:17 - 28; 1Tim. 3:15; Col. 1:18; Eph. 5:23 - 24; Acts 15:13 - 18)

SECTION 16 - OF BAPTISM AND THE LORD'S SUPPER: We believe that Christian Baptism is the single immersion of a believer in water to show forth in a solemn and beautiful emblem our faith in the crucified, buried, and risen Saviour, with its effect in our death to sin and resurrection to a new life; that it is prerequisite to the privileges of a church relation. We believe that the Lord's Supper is the commemoration of His death until He comes, and should be preceded always by solemn self-examination. (Acts 2:36 - 42; John 3:23; Rom. 6:3 - 5; Matt. 3:16; Col. 2:12; 1 Cor. 11:24 - 28)

SECTION 17 - OF THE SECURITY OF THE SAINTS: We believe that all who are truly born again are kept by God the Father for Jesus Christ. (Phil. 1:6; John 10:28 - 29; Rom. 8:35 - 39; Jude 1)

SECTION 18 - OF THE RIGHTEOUS AND THE WICKED: We believe that there is a radical and essential difference between the righteous and the wicked; that such only as through faith are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and sanctified by the Spirit of our God, are truly righteous in His esteem; while all such as continue in impenitence and unbelief are in His sight wicked, and under the curse; and this distinction holds among men both in and after death, in the everlasting bliss of the saved and the everlasting suffering of the lost. (Mal. 3:18; Gen. 18:23; Rom. 6:17 - 18; 1 John 5:19; Rom. 7:6; Prov. 14:32; Luke 6:25; Matt. 25:34 - 41; John 8:21)

SECTION 19 - OF THE RESURRECTION, PERSONAL, VISIBLE, PRE-MILLENIAL RETURN OF CHRIST, AND RELATED EVENTS:
PART A. We believe in the Bodily Resurrection of Christ. (Matt. 28:6 - 7; Luke 24:39; John 20:27; 1 Cor. 15:4; Mark 16:6; Luke 24:2 - 6)
PART B: The ascension of Christ. (Acts 1:9 - 11; Luke 24:51; Mark 16:19; Rev.
3:21; Heb. 12:2)

PART C: The High Priesthood of Christ. (Heb, 8:6; 1 Tim. 2:5; 1John 2:1; Heb. 2:17; Heb. 5:9 - 10)

PART D: The Return of Jesus Christ: We believe in the imminent, bodily, personal pre-millennial return of Christ; that he will come before the seven year tribulation period to catch away His church, coming only into the air; and that He will come with His Church at the close of the tribulation to judge the living nations and to set up His kingdom on earth. (1Thess. 4:13 - 18; Matt. 25:31 - 46; Rev. 19:11 - 21; John 14:3; Acts 1:11; James 5:8; Heb. 9:28)

PART E: The resurrection of the Righteous Dead and Unbelievers: We believe in the resurrection of the bodies of the dead; that the believers, asleep in Jesus, will be raised at the coming of Christ for His Church and will be caught up with transformed living saints (1 Cor. 15:51 - 55; Phil. 3:20 - 21) to meet the Lord in the air; (1 Thess. 4:13 - 18; I Cor. 15:42 - 44; 52), and that the wicked dead will be raised at the close of the millennial kingdom and stand in their bodies at the Great White Throne of judgment to receive their final doom.. (John 5:21 - 30; 1 Thess. 4:1 - 16; Rev. 7:9 - 17; Rev. 20:11 - 15)

PART F. The Throne of David: We believe that Christ is the rightful heir of the throne of David and that at His second coming to earth, He will claim it as the rightful King of the nation Israel. (Luke 1:32; Isa. 9:6 - 7; Acts 2:29 - 30)

PART G: The Millennial Reign: We believe that the reign of Christ will begin with a literal thousand year reign on this earth in which Jesus Christ will hold absolute rule over all men. It will lead into His everlasting reign in the new heavens and new earth. (1 Cor. 15:25; Isa. 32:1; Isa. 11:4 - 5; Ps. 72:8; Rev. 20:14; Rev. 20:6)

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15-05-2014, 06:52 PM
RE: Catholic vs. Christian
How do you get that Catholics don't worship Jesus? Isn't "Mary, mother of God" a Catholic saying? At every mass they have a ritual where wine is turned into the blood of their savior (Jesus) and bread is turned into his body. This definitely sounds like worship of Jesus to me. The impression that I get is that some Protestant groups are taught that they aren't Christian. I'll admit that I'm baffled by this.

(15-05-2014 03:08 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(15-05-2014 03:02 PM)robert_rowe Wrote:  I have heard many callers say something like:

I was raised a Catholic but I later converted to Christianity.

or

I was born a Catholic but later I became a Christian.

I am very confused. Catholics are Christians. They are actually the largest and oldest form of Christianity. Is it common somewhere in the world that people think that Catholics aren't Christian? If so then what is their reasoning for this? Are they just so ignorant of what Catholicism is that they don't realise that they are Christians? What is it about Catholicism that makes them not think they are Christians? They seem to do the same with Mormons too and they are just as Christian (its even in the name of their church Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints).

The Catholics clearly don't worship Jesus enough.
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15-05-2014, 06:56 PM
RE: Catholic vs. Christian
(15-05-2014 06:52 PM)robert_rowe Wrote:  How do you get that Catholics don't worship Jesus? Isn't "Mary, mother of God" a Catholic saying? At every mass they have a ritual where wine is turned into the blood of their savior (Jesus) and bread is turned into his body. This definitely sounds like worship of Jesus to me. The impression that I get is that some Protestant groups are taught that they aren't Christian. I'll admit that I'm baffled by this.

(15-05-2014 03:08 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  The Catholics clearly don't worship Jesus enough.

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15-05-2014, 07:02 PM
RE: Catholic vs. Christian
Wow. I don't think that there was any part of that that wasn't completely bat sh** crazy. I'll admit that I only made it about halfway through though. While there are plenty of things wrong with Catholics they usually aren't this bad.

(15-05-2014 06:52 PM)Charis Wrote:  Okaaayyyy.... putting on my fundy hat for just a sec.

Here is the Statement of Faith from my ex-church, Independent Fundamental Baptist. If you know much about Catholicism, you'll see the differences. As you read this, you'll see the mindset in the fundamentalists.

Behold, I bring you.... my former statement of faith:


SECTION 1 - OF THE SCRIPTURES: We believe that the Holy Bible as originally written was verbally, plenarily inspired and the product of Spirit-controlled men; therefore, has truth without any admixture of error for its matter. We believe the Bible to be the true center of Christian union and the supreme standard by which all human conduct, creeds, and opinions shall be tried. (2 Tim. 3:16 & 17; 2 Peter 1:19-21)

SECTION 2 - OF THE TRUE GOD: We believe there is one, and only one, living and true

God, an infinite Spirit, and the maker and Supreme Ruler of Heaven and earth;
inexpressibly glorious in holiness, and worthy of all possible honor, confidence, and love; that in the unity of the Godhead there are three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, equal in every divine perfection, and executing distinct but harmonious offices in the great work of redemption. (Exodus 20:2 & 3; I Cor. 8:6; Rev. 4:11)

SECTION 3 - JESUS CHRIST: We believe in the absolute Deity of the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, that He was divine as no other man can be, being very God of very God; existing from all eternity co-equal with the Father and the Holy Spirit; that He never ceased to be God for one instant and that His humiliation did not consist of laying aside His Deity; that as man, He was miraculously begotten of the Holy Ghost and born of the virgin, Mary. (John 1:1 & 2; 1 John 5:20; Matt. 1:20; Luke 1:26 - 28)

SECTION 4 - OF THE HOLY GHOST: We believe that the Holy Spirit is a divine person, with God the Father and God the Son of the same nature, that He was active in creation; that in His relation to the unbelieving world, He restrains the evil one, until God's purpose is fulfilled; that He convicts of sin, of righteousness, and of judgment; that He is the agent in the New Birth; that He seals, endues, guides, teaches, witnesses, sanctifies, and helps the believer. (John 14:16 & 17; Matt. 28:19; Heb. 9:14; John 14:26; Luke 1:35; John 16:8 - 11; Acts 5:30 - 32; John 3:5 & 6; Eph. 1:14 & 15; Mark 1:8; John 1:33; Acts 11:16; Luke 24:49; Rom. 8:14, 16, 26 & 27)

SECTION 5 - OF THE DEVIL OR SATAN: We believe in the personality of Satan, that he is the unholy god of this age, and the author of all the powers of darkness, and is destined to the judgment of an eternal justice in the lake of fire. (Isa. 14:12 - 16; Ezk. 28:1 - 19; Matt. 4:1 - 3; 2 Cor. 4:4; Rev. 20:10)

SECTION 6 - OF CREATION: We believe that God created the heavens and the earth including all life, "each after its own kind", by direct act, according to the Genesis account; and not by any process of evolution, and that man was created in the image and likeness of God. (Genesis 1:11; Col. 1:16 - 17; John 1:3)

SECTION 7 - OF THE FALL OF MAN: We believe that man was created in innocence under the law of his Maker, but by voluntary transgression, fell from his sinless and happy state in consequence of which all mankind are now sinners, not only by constraint, but by choice; and therefore, under just condemnation without defense or excuse. (Gen. 3:1 - 6 & 24; Rom. 5:10 - 19; Rom. 1:18 & 32)

SECTION 8 -OF THE VIRGIN BIRTH: We believe that Jesus was begotten of the Holy Ghost in a miraculous manner, born of Mary, a virgin, as no other man was ever born or can ever be born of a woman, and that He is both the Son of God and God the Son. (Gen. 3:15; Isa. 7:14; Matt. 1:18 - 25; Luke 1:35; John 1:4)


SECTION 9 - OF THE ATONEMENT OF SIN: We believe that the salvation of sinners
wholly of grace; through the mediatorial offices of the Son of God, Who by the appointment of the Father, freely took upon Him our nature yet without sin, honored the divine law by His personal obedience, and by His death made a full and vicarious atonement for our sins; that His atonement consisted not in setting us an example by His death as a martyr, but was a voluntary substitution of Himself in the sinner's place, the Just dying for the unjust; Christ the Lord, bearing our sin in His own body on the tree; that having risen from the dead, He is now enthroned in Heaven, and uniting in His wonderful person the tenderest sympathies with divine perfection, He is in every way qualified to be a suitable, a compassionate, and all-sufficient Saviour. (Eph. 2:8; Acts 15:11; Rom. 3:24; John 3:16; Matt. 18:11;Phil. 2:7; Heb. 2:14; Isa. 53:4-7; Rom. 3:25; 1 John 4:10; 1 Cor. 15:3; 2 Cor. 5:21)

SECTION 10 - OF THE GRACE IN THE NEW CREATION: We believe that in order to be saved, sinners must be born again; that the new birth is a new creation in Christ Jesus; that it is instantaneous and not a process; that in the new birth, the one dead in trespasses and sins is made a partaker of the divine nature and receives eternal life, the free gift of God, that the new creation is brought about in a manner above our comprehension, solely by the power of the Holy Spirit in connection with divine truth, so as to secure our voluntary obedience to the gospel; that its proper evidence appears in the holy fruits of repentance and faith and newness of life. (John 3:3; 2 Cor. 5:17; 1 John 3:6 & 7; Acts 16:30 - 33; Rom. 6:23; 2 Peter 1:4; Eph. 2:11; 2 Cor. 5:19; Col. 2:13; John 3:8)

SECTION 11 - OF JUSTIFICATION: We believe that the great gospel blessing which Christ secures to such as believe in Him is Justification: (a) That Justification includes the pardon of sin, and the gift of eternal life, on principles of righteousness; (b) That it is bestowed not in consideration of any works of righteousness which we have done; but solely through faith in the Redeemer's blood, His righteousness is imputed to us. (Acts 13:39; Isa. 53:11; Zech 13:1; Rom. 5:9; Rom. 5:1)

SECTION 12 - OF FAITH AND SALVATION: We believe that faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is the only condition of salvation. (Acts 16:31; Eph. 2:8)

SECTION 13 - OF MARRIAGE AND THE HOME: We believe the home was the first institution God provided for man (Genesis 2:18 - 24), and that marriage is a sacred relationship and honorable for all (Hebrews 13:4; 1 Cor. 7:2). Marriage is used as an emblem of the union of Christ and His church (Eph. 5:21 - 23). "What therefore God hath joined together, let no man put asunder". (Mark 10:9)

SECTION 14 - OF CIVIL GOVERNMENT: We believe that civil government is of divine appointment for the interests and good order of human society; that magistrates are to be prayed for, conscientiously honored, and obeyed; except in things opposed to the will of our Lord Jesus Christ Who is the only Lord of the conscience and the coming Prince of the Kings of the earth.
(Rom. 13:1 - 7; 2 Sam. 23:3; Exodus 18:21; Acts 23:5; Matt. 22:21; Acts 5:20; Acts 4:19 & 20; Dan. 3:17 & 18)

SECTION 15 - OF THE LOCAL AND UNIVERSAL CHURCH: We believe that a local church is a congregation of immersed believers; associated by covenant of faith and the fellowship of the Gospel; observing the Ordinances of Christ; governed by His laws; and exercising the gifts, rights and privileges invested in them by His work; that its officers are pastors and deacons whose qualifications, claims and duties are clearly defined in the Scriptures. We believe the true Mission of the church is faithful witnessing of Christ to all men as we have opportunity. We hold that the local church has the absolute right of self-government, free from the interference of any hierarchy of individuals or organizations; and that the one and only superintendent is Christ through the Holy Spirit; that it is Scriptural for true churches to cooperate with each other in contending for the faith and for the furtherance of the Gospel; that each local church is the sole judge of measure and method of its cooperation; on all matters of membership, of policy, of government, of discipline, of benevolence, the will of the local church is final. We believe in the universal church, the Body of Christ, consisting of all who accept Christ as personal Saviour. (Acts 2:41 - 42; 1 Cor. 11:2; Eph. 1:22 - 23; Eph 4:11; Acts 20:17 - 28; 1Tim. 3:15; Col. 1:18; Eph. 5:23 - 24; Acts 15:13 - 18)

SECTION 16 - OF BAPTISM AND THE LORD'S SUPPER: We believe that Christian Baptism is the single immersion of a believer in water to show forth in a solemn and beautiful emblem our faith in the crucified, buried, and risen Saviour, with its effect in our death to sin and resurrection to a new life; that it is prerequisite to the privileges of a church relation. We believe that the Lord's Supper is the commemoration of His death until He comes, and should be preceded always by solemn self-examination. (Acts 2:36 - 42; John 3:23; Rom. 6:3 - 5; Matt. 3:16; Col. 2:12; 1 Cor. 11:24 - 28)

SECTION 17 - OF THE SECURITY OF THE SAINTS: We believe that all who are truly born again are kept by God the Father for Jesus Christ. (Phil. 1:6; John 10:28 - 29; Rom. 8:35 - 39; Jude 1)

SECTION 18 - OF THE RIGHTEOUS AND THE WICKED: We believe that there is a radical and essential difference between the righteous and the wicked; that such only as through faith are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and sanctified by the Spirit of our God, are truly righteous in His esteem; while all such as continue in impenitence and unbelief are in His sight wicked, and under the curse; and this distinction holds among men both in and after death, in the everlasting bliss of the saved and the everlasting suffering of the lost. (Mal. 3:18; Gen. 18:23; Rom. 6:17 - 18; 1 John 5:19; Rom. 7:6; Prov. 14:32; Luke 6:25; Matt. 25:34 - 41; John 8:21)

SECTION 19 - OF THE RESURRECTION, PERSONAL, VISIBLE, PRE-MILLENIAL RETURN OF CHRIST, AND RELATED EVENTS:
PART A. We believe in the Bodily Resurrection of Christ. (Matt. 28:6 - 7; Luke 24:39; John 20:27; 1 Cor. 15:4; Mark 16:6; Luke 24:2 - 6)
PART B: The ascension of Christ. (Acts 1:9 - 11; Luke 24:51; Mark 16:19; Rev.
3:21; Heb. 12:2)

PART C: The High Priesthood of Christ. (Heb, 8:6; 1 Tim. 2:5; 1John 2:1; Heb. 2:17; Heb. 5:9 - 10)

PART D: The Return of Jesus Christ: We believe in the imminent, bodily, personal pre-millennial return of Christ; that he will come before the seven year tribulation period to catch away His church, coming only into the air; and that He will come with His Church at the close of the tribulation to judge the living nations and to set up His kingdom on earth. (1Thess. 4:13 - 18; Matt. 25:31 - 46; Rev. 19:11 - 21; John 14:3; Acts 1:11; James 5:8; Heb. 9:28)

PART E: The resurrection of the Righteous Dead and Unbelievers: We believe in the resurrection of the bodies of the dead; that the believers, asleep in Jesus, will be raised at the coming of Christ for His Church and will be caught up with transformed living saints (1 Cor. 15:51 - 55; Phil. 3:20 - 21) to meet the Lord in the air; (1 Thess. 4:13 - 18; I Cor. 15:42 - 44; 52), and that the wicked dead will be raised at the close of the millennial kingdom and stand in their bodies at the Great White Throne of judgment to receive their final doom.. (John 5:21 - 30; 1 Thess. 4:1 - 16; Rev. 7:9 - 17; Rev. 20:11 - 15)

PART F. The Throne of David: We believe that Christ is the rightful heir of the throne of David and that at His second coming to earth, He will claim it as the rightful King of the nation Israel. (Luke 1:32; Isa. 9:6 - 7; Acts 2:29 - 30)

PART G: The Millennial Reign: We believe that the reign of Christ will begin with a literal thousand year reign on this earth in which Jesus Christ will hold absolute rule over all men. It will lead into His everlasting reign in the new heavens and new earth. (1 Cor. 15:25; Isa. 32:1; Isa. 11:4 - 5; Ps. 72:8; Rev. 20:14; Rev. 20:6)
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15-05-2014, 07:03 PM
RE: Catholic vs. Christian
Yep, I was a bit slow there. Sorry. What is that a quote from? I think that I've heard it before.

(15-05-2014 06:56 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(15-05-2014 06:52 PM)robert_rowe Wrote:  How do you get that Catholics don't worship Jesus? Isn't "Mary, mother of God" a Catholic saying? At every mass they have a ritual where wine is turned into the blood of their savior (Jesus) and bread is turned into his body. This definitely sounds like worship of Jesus to me. The impression that I get is that some Protestant groups are taught that they aren't Christian. I'll admit that I'm baffled by this.

"Captain I believe the sarcasm detector was damaged in that last volley. Recommend we send a repair crew."
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15-05-2014, 07:07 PM
RE: Catholic vs. Christian
(15-05-2014 07:02 PM)robert_rowe Wrote:  Wow. I don't think that there was any part of that that wasn't completely bat sh** crazy. I'll admit that I only made it about halfway through though. While there are plenty of things wrong with Catholics they usually aren't this bad.

(15-05-2014 06:52 PM)Charis Wrote:  Okaaayyyy.... putting on my fundy hat for just a sec.

Here is the Statement of Faith from my ex-church, Independent Fundamental Baptist. If you know much about Catholicism, you'll see the differences. As you read this, you'll see the mindset in the fundamentalists.

Behold, I bring you.... my former statement of faith:


SECTION 1 - OF THE SCRIPTURES: We believe that the Holy Bible as originally written was verbally, plenarily inspired and the product of Spirit-controlled men; therefore, has truth without any admixture of error for its matter. We believe the Bible to be the true center of Christian union and the supreme standard by which all human conduct, creeds, and opinions shall be tried. (2 Tim. 3:16 & 17; 2 Peter 1:19-21)

SECTION 2 - OF THE TRUE GOD: We believe there is one, and only one, living and true

God, an infinite Spirit, and the maker and Supreme Ruler of Heaven and earth;
inexpressibly glorious in holiness, and worthy of all possible honor, confidence, and love; that in the unity of the Godhead there are three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, equal in every divine perfection, and executing distinct but harmonious offices in the great work of redemption. (Exodus 20:2 & 3; I Cor. 8:6; Rev. 4:11)

SECTION 3 - JESUS CHRIST: We believe in the absolute Deity of the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, that He was divine as no other man can be, being very God of very God; existing from all eternity co-equal with the Father and the Holy Spirit; that He never ceased to be God for one instant and that His humiliation did not consist of laying aside His Deity; that as man, He was miraculously begotten of the Holy Ghost and born of the virgin, Mary. (John 1:1 & 2; 1 John 5:20; Matt. 1:20; Luke 1:26 - 28)

SECTION 4 - OF THE HOLY GHOST: We believe that the Holy Spirit is a divine person, with God the Father and God the Son of the same nature, that He was active in creation; that in His relation to the unbelieving world, He restrains the evil one, until God's purpose is fulfilled; that He convicts of sin, of righteousness, and of judgment; that He is the agent in the New Birth; that He seals, endues, guides, teaches, witnesses, sanctifies, and helps the believer. (John 14:16 & 17; Matt. 28:19; Heb. 9:14; John 14:26; Luke 1:35; John 16:8 - 11; Acts 5:30 - 32; John 3:5 & 6; Eph. 1:14 & 15; Mark 1:8; John 1:33; Acts 11:16; Luke 24:49; Rom. 8:14, 16, 26 & 27)

SECTION 5 - OF THE DEVIL OR SATAN: We believe in the personality of Satan, that he is the unholy god of this age, and the author of all the powers of darkness, and is destined to the judgment of an eternal justice in the lake of fire. (Isa. 14:12 - 16; Ezk. 28:1 - 19; Matt. 4:1 - 3; 2 Cor. 4:4; Rev. 20:10)

SECTION 6 - OF CREATION: We believe that God created the heavens and the earth including all life, "each after its own kind", by direct act, according to the Genesis account; and not by any process of evolution, and that man was created in the image and likeness of God. (Genesis 1:11; Col. 1:16 - 17; John 1:3)

SECTION 7 - OF THE FALL OF MAN: We believe that man was created in innocence under the law of his Maker, but by voluntary transgression, fell from his sinless and happy state in consequence of which all mankind are now sinners, not only by constraint, but by choice; and therefore, under just condemnation without defense or excuse. (Gen. 3:1 - 6 & 24; Rom. 5:10 - 19; Rom. 1:18 & 32)

SECTION 8 -OF THE VIRGIN BIRTH: We believe that Jesus was begotten of the Holy Ghost in a miraculous manner, born of Mary, a virgin, as no other man was ever born or can ever be born of a woman, and that He is both the Son of God and God the Son. (Gen. 3:15; Isa. 7:14; Matt. 1:18 - 25; Luke 1:35; John 1:4)


SECTION 9 - OF THE ATONEMENT OF SIN: We believe that the salvation of sinners
wholly of grace; through the mediatorial offices of the Son of God, Who by the appointment of the Father, freely took upon Him our nature yet without sin, honored the divine law by His personal obedience, and by His death made a full and vicarious atonement for our sins; that His atonement consisted not in setting us an example by His death as a martyr, but was a voluntary substitution of Himself in the sinner's place, the Just dying for the unjust; Christ the Lord, bearing our sin in His own body on the tree; that having risen from the dead, He is now enthroned in Heaven, and uniting in His wonderful person the tenderest sympathies with divine perfection, He is in every way qualified to be a suitable, a compassionate, and all-sufficient Saviour. (Eph. 2:8; Acts 15:11; Rom. 3:24; John 3:16; Matt. 18:11;Phil. 2:7; Heb. 2:14; Isa. 53:4-7; Rom. 3:25; 1 John 4:10; 1 Cor. 15:3; 2 Cor. 5:21)

SECTION 10 - OF THE GRACE IN THE NEW CREATION: We believe that in order to be saved, sinners must be born again; that the new birth is a new creation in Christ Jesus; that it is instantaneous and not a process; that in the new birth, the one dead in trespasses and sins is made a partaker of the divine nature and receives eternal life, the free gift of God, that the new creation is brought about in a manner above our comprehension, solely by the power of the Holy Spirit in connection with divine truth, so as to secure our voluntary obedience to the gospel; that its proper evidence appears in the holy fruits of repentance and faith and newness of life. (John 3:3; 2 Cor. 5:17; 1 John 3:6 & 7; Acts 16:30 - 33; Rom. 6:23; 2 Peter 1:4; Eph. 2:11; 2 Cor. 5:19; Col. 2:13; John 3:8)

SECTION 11 - OF JUSTIFICATION: We believe that the great gospel blessing which Christ secures to such as believe in Him is Justification: (a) That Justification includes the pardon of sin, and the gift of eternal life, on principles of righteousness; (b) That it is bestowed not in consideration of any works of righteousness which we have done; but solely through faith in the Redeemer's blood, His righteousness is imputed to us. (Acts 13:39; Isa. 53:11; Zech 13:1; Rom. 5:9; Rom. 5:1)

SECTION 12 - OF FAITH AND SALVATION: We believe that faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is the only condition of salvation. (Acts 16:31; Eph. 2:8)

SECTION 13 - OF MARRIAGE AND THE HOME: We believe the home was the first institution God provided for man (Genesis 2:18 - 24), and that marriage is a sacred relationship and honorable for all (Hebrews 13:4; 1 Cor. 7:2). Marriage is used as an emblem of the union of Christ and His church (Eph. 5:21 - 23). "What therefore God hath joined together, let no man put asunder". (Mark 10:9)

SECTION 14 - OF CIVIL GOVERNMENT: We believe that civil government is of divine appointment for the interests and good order of human society; that magistrates are to be prayed for, conscientiously honored, and obeyed; except in things opposed to the will of our Lord Jesus Christ Who is the only Lord of the conscience and the coming Prince of the Kings of the earth.
(Rom. 13:1 - 7; 2 Sam. 23:3; Exodus 18:21; Acts 23:5; Matt. 22:21; Acts 5:20; Acts 4:19 & 20; Dan. 3:17 & 18)

SECTION 15 - OF THE LOCAL AND UNIVERSAL CHURCH: We believe that a local church is a congregation of immersed believers; associated by covenant of faith and the fellowship of the Gospel; observing the Ordinances of Christ; governed by His laws; and exercising the gifts, rights and privileges invested in them by His work; that its officers are pastors and deacons whose qualifications, claims and duties are clearly defined in the Scriptures. We believe the true Mission of the church is faithful witnessing of Christ to all men as we have opportunity. We hold that the local church has the absolute right of self-government, free from the interference of any hierarchy of individuals or organizations; and that the one and only superintendent is Christ through the Holy Spirit; that it is Scriptural for true churches to cooperate with each other in contending for the faith and for the furtherance of the Gospel; that each local church is the sole judge of measure and method of its cooperation; on all matters of membership, of policy, of government, of discipline, of benevolence, the will of the local church is final. We believe in the universal church, the Body of Christ, consisting of all who accept Christ as personal Saviour. (Acts 2:41 - 42; 1 Cor. 11:2; Eph. 1:22 - 23; Eph 4:11; Acts 20:17 - 28; 1Tim. 3:15; Col. 1:18; Eph. 5:23 - 24; Acts 15:13 - 18)

SECTION 16 - OF BAPTISM AND THE LORD'S SUPPER: We believe that Christian Baptism is the single immersion of a believer in water to show forth in a solemn and beautiful emblem our faith in the crucified, buried, and risen Saviour, with its effect in our death to sin and resurrection to a new life; that it is prerequisite to the privileges of a church relation. We believe that the Lord's Supper is the commemoration of His death until He comes, and should be preceded always by solemn self-examination. (Acts 2:36 - 42; John 3:23; Rom. 6:3 - 5; Matt. 3:16; Col. 2:12; 1 Cor. 11:24 - 28)

SECTION 17 - OF THE SECURITY OF THE SAINTS: We believe that all who are truly born again are kept by God the Father for Jesus Christ. (Phil. 1:6; John 10:28 - 29; Rom. 8:35 - 39; Jude 1)

SECTION 18 - OF THE RIGHTEOUS AND THE WICKED: We believe that there is a radical and essential difference between the righteous and the wicked; that such only as through faith are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and sanctified by the Spirit of our God, are truly righteous in His esteem; while all such as continue in impenitence and unbelief are in His sight wicked, and under the curse; and this distinction holds among men both in and after death, in the everlasting bliss of the saved and the everlasting suffering of the lost. (Mal. 3:18; Gen. 18:23; Rom. 6:17 - 18; 1 John 5:19; Rom. 7:6; Prov. 14:32; Luke 6:25; Matt. 25:34 - 41; John 8:21)

SECTION 19 - OF THE RESURRECTION, PERSONAL, VISIBLE, PRE-MILLENIAL RETURN OF CHRIST, AND RELATED EVENTS:
PART A. We believe in the Bodily Resurrection of Christ. (Matt. 28:6 - 7; Luke 24:39; John 20:27; 1 Cor. 15:4; Mark 16:6; Luke 24:2 - 6)
PART B: The ascension of Christ. (Acts 1:9 - 11; Luke 24:51; Mark 16:19; Rev.
3:21; Heb. 12:2)

PART C: The High Priesthood of Christ. (Heb, 8:6; 1 Tim. 2:5; 1John 2:1; Heb. 2:17; Heb. 5:9 - 10)

PART D: The Return of Jesus Christ: We believe in the imminent, bodily, personal pre-millennial return of Christ; that he will come before the seven year tribulation period to catch away His church, coming only into the air; and that He will come with His Church at the close of the tribulation to judge the living nations and to set up His kingdom on earth. (1Thess. 4:13 - 18; Matt. 25:31 - 46; Rev. 19:11 - 21; John 14:3; Acts 1:11; James 5:8; Heb. 9:28)

PART E: The resurrection of the Righteous Dead and Unbelievers: We believe in the resurrection of the bodies of the dead; that the believers, asleep in Jesus, will be raised at the coming of Christ for His Church and will be caught up with transformed living saints (1 Cor. 15:51 - 55; Phil. 3:20 - 21) to meet the Lord in the air; (1 Thess. 4:13 - 18; I Cor. 15:42 - 44; 52), and that the wicked dead will be raised at the close of the millennial kingdom and stand in their bodies at the Great White Throne of judgment to receive their final doom.. (John 5:21 - 30; 1 Thess. 4:1 - 16; Rev. 7:9 - 17; Rev. 20:11 - 15)

PART F. The Throne of David: We believe that Christ is the rightful heir of the throne of David and that at His second coming to earth, He will claim it as the rightful King of the nation Israel. (Luke 1:32; Isa. 9:6 - 7; Acts 2:29 - 30)

PART G: The Millennial Reign: We believe that the reign of Christ will begin with a literal thousand year reign on this earth in which Jesus Christ will hold absolute rule over all men. It will lead into His everlasting reign in the new heavens and new earth. (1 Cor. 15:25; Isa. 32:1; Isa. 11:4 - 5; Ps. 72:8; Rev. 20:14; Rev. 20:6)

What you're seeing there is what they're willing to put out to the public, on their website. What you're NOT seeing there are the parts that they don't put out to the public. The parts you DON'T see. What you've seen so far is just the beginning.

A person very dear to me was badly hurt through a misunderstanding and miscommunication. For this, I am sorry, and he knows it. That said, any blaming me for malicious intent is for the birds. I will not wear some scarlet letter, I will not be anybody's whipping girl, and I will not lurk in silence.
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15-05-2014, 07:11 PM
RE: Catholic vs. Christian
(15-05-2014 07:02 PM)robert_rowe Wrote:  Wow. I don't think that there was any part of that that wasn't completely bat sh** crazy. I'll admit that I only made it about halfway through though. While there are plenty of things wrong with Catholics they usually aren't this bad.

Truth be told Catholics have their own brand of bat-shit. Like communion actually transforming into the blood and flesh of Jesus.

Not the symbolic change that most protestants believe but with Catholics it's very literal.

That's just one...there are so many more examples, most enforced by centuries of superstition -- and just not knowing better.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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15-05-2014, 07:18 PM
RE: Catholic vs. Christian
(15-05-2014 07:11 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(15-05-2014 07:02 PM)robert_rowe Wrote:  Wow. I don't think that there was any part of that that wasn't completely bat sh** crazy. I'll admit that I only made it about halfway through though. While there are plenty of things wrong with Catholics they usually aren't this bad.

Truth be told Catholics have their own brand of bat-shit. Like communion actually transforming into the blood and flesh of Jesus.

Not the symbolic change that most protestants believe but with Catholics it's very literal.

That's just one...there are so many more examples, most enforced by centuries of superstition -- and just not knowing better.
Yes, nevermind that drinking blood is supposed to be forbidden.

A person very dear to me was badly hurt through a misunderstanding and miscommunication. For this, I am sorry, and he knows it. That said, any blaming me for malicious intent is for the birds. I will not wear some scarlet letter, I will not be anybody's whipping girl, and I will not lurk in silence.
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