Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
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18-10-2013, 10:47 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 10:34 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  
(18-10-2013 10:25 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  So nocternal emissions, which are completely out of your control, are condemning you to hell based on your biblical teachings.

And how about sex with a pregnant woman where further procreation can not result? Did you really stop having sex with your wife for more than 3 years while she was bearing those 4 children?

Further, since pregnancy can only happen in a short window of 72 hours (12 hours after the egg is released from the Ovary), all of those sperm were clearly not seeking an egg....did you only have sex with your wife during her 3 fertile days of each cycle? Of course not. So why is the spilling of seed in this way ok, but not for others. Makes no sense.

No, a person only commits a sin if he wills it, nocturnal emissions are not willed and are therefore not sinful.

Two answer your second two questions I will use a part of scripture
"The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency."

Married couples are allowed to have sex under most circumstances as long as it wont endanger the life of the other and the other person can consent with full mind.

The secondary ends of comfort is a remedy for the fact that we desire sex more than what is necessary and aids the couple in resisting other sexual temptations.


Hmmm...so in one statement you say that only sex with wasted seed is sinful....the next you say its only if they don't endanger the life of the other..

Which is it? Because you seem to say its okay to waste seed in *some* instances and not others. How can you be sure which one is which?
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18-10-2013, 10:48 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 10:39 AM)Vera Wrote:  
(18-10-2013 10:21 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  because he loves even the hair on our body

Does he cry when people shave, then? How about haircuts? Tweezing? Are some hairs more precious to him than others? How about nails, he love them, too? Is nail polish a sin, too, since the intended purpose of nails isn't to look pretty?


And what was that about adulterous sex being wrong? First time I'm hearing you can't pregnant when you're committing adultery. Stop the presses, guys, I think we just found the perfect contraceptive! Unless that sex is wrong for a different reason... frankly, there is only so much blind delusion (and I'm being nice here Dodgy ) I can take, so I admit I didn't study the above masterpieces in detail...

No, it means that he knows and cares about us in everyway.

Adulterous sex is wrong, because of the revelation of the 10 commandments.
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18-10-2013, 10:50 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 10:41 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(18-10-2013 10:34 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  No, a person only commits a sin if he wills it, nocturnal emissions are not willed and are therefore not sinful.

Two answer your second two questions I will use a part of scripture
"The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency."

Married couples are allowed to have sex under most circumstances as long as it wont endanger the life of the other and the other person can consent with full mind.

The secondary ends of comfort is a remedy for the fact that we desire sex more than what is necessary and aids the couple in resisting other sexual temptations.


There actually are THREE requirements for (mortal) sin, in the Catholic cult.
The Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church says : (Paragraph) 1859

"Mortal sin requires a. full knowledge and b. complete consent. c. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God's law.
It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin."

There is no way homosexual acts by people of good faith, who honestly think they are acting in accordance with their best judgement, who believe in no gods, or recognize any "divine law", meet ANY of those requirements.

Therefore, according to Roman Moral Theology, they CANNOT be sinful.
Why is it, atheists have to teach these people their own theology ?

I never thought of it that way. Great food for thought!
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18-10-2013, 10:51 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 10:40 AM)guitar_nut Wrote:  
(18-10-2013 10:21 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  Wasted seed refers to seed that is not put in the right place, it is true only one sperm will fertilize the egg, but it will have no chance of fertilizing any egg if it is not in the proper enviroment.

Because he said so, because he loves even the hair on our body and he watches over us each day and night. He wants us to love him, and so when we seek pleasure by itself it distracts us from the love of God. God who created us shared with us his creative power and so he wishes us to use it to create other humans also made in his image which he can love.

Thank you for answering.

If fertilizing an egg is the only true purpose of sex, then sex should be had only during the time this is possible. The egg lives for about a day. Sex during any other time is 'wasted seed.' Having sex more than 12 times a year is wasting seed. Having sex at all, post-menopause (also not explained in the bible) is wasting seed. Wet dreams are wasted seed. The facts do not line up with the 'rules'.

Why does god not specify that we should have sex only one day a month?
Why did god not make it possible for people to detect when that day is (sure, science figured it out, but the bible offers nothing)?
Why did god not make it possible to detect who is, and isn't, infertile, and why does infertility exist in the first place if our purpose is reproduction?

Finally, how can an omniscient being 'want' something? Want implies a need that cannot be fulfilled. An all-powerful being should be able to fulfill any need it has. An all-powerful being should not want anything.

No, wasted seed does not refer to seed that does not fertilize an egg, but seed that is not able to at all conceive a child.

You are asking questions that I cannot answer, I only know what God has decided to reveal through revelation. He does not need us, yet he created us and desires us to Love him because he loves us. He is perfectly happy by himself but because of his goodness he wants others to have it as well, it is a mystery that Catholics are suppose to meditate on.
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18-10-2013, 10:53 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 10:41 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(18-10-2013 10:34 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  No, a person only commits a sin if he wills it, nocturnal emissions are not willed and are therefore not sinful.

Two answer your second two questions I will use a part of scripture
"The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency."

Married couples are allowed to have sex under most circumstances as long as it wont endanger the life of the other and the other person can consent with full mind.

The secondary ends of comfort is a remedy for the fact that we desire sex more than what is necessary and aids the couple in resisting other sexual temptations.


There actually are THREE requirements for (mortal) sin, in the Catholic cult.
The Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church says : (Paragraph) 1859

"Mortal sin requires a. full knowledge and b. complete consent. c. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God's law.
It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin."

There is no way homosexual acts by people of good faith, who honestly think they are acting in accordance with their best judgement, who believe in no gods, or recognize any "divine law", meet ANY of those requirements.

Therefore, according to Roman Moral Theology, they CANNOT be sinful.
Why is it, atheists have to teach these people their own theology ?

Sinful acts have been revealed through revelation one of those are homosexuality (among others), if a Catholic does not accept revelation then he is no longer a Catholic.
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18-10-2013, 10:54 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 10:42 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(18-10-2013 10:18 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  No one ever built a house by having sex, sex has but one use with two ends procreation and comfort.

We also have power because we still live in a democracy and for the time being we are a large portion of society.

Actually I think if you check the polls you are a minority opinion and a shrinking demographic. Gay marriage is a fact in what 17 states now and will be law of the land before the decade is out. There is no rational secular argument against it and forbidding it is unconstitutional add that to the growing public support and this is a tide you will not be able to beat back.

Yes, you are probably right that edventually these things will probaly become the law of the land for a while.
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18-10-2013, 10:54 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
He also said one of the purposes was "for comfort".
That refutes his "wasted seed" business.

Then they have this preposterous bullshit about "natural family planning".
The Roman Church creates a "distinction without a difference" with birth control, when they say that "Natural Family Planning" is acceptable, as moral, even while maintaining, in their own Moral Theology, that the ultimate determining factor in a moral choice, is "intention". The "intent", no matter how it's done, by definition, of "Family Planning", is to MAKE A PLAN..an intentional act to prevent a pregnancy, which can include a whole series of intentional acts, (temperature taking, abstaining on certain days, even going to classes, etc etc,). Apparently they have a REALLY dumb god, who is unaware of their intentions.

In 1963 Pope John XXIII established a commission, consisting of six European non-theologians to study questions of birth control and populations. After he died in 1963, Pope Paul VI added theologians to the commission and expanded it to 72 members from five continents (including 16 theologians, 13 physicians and five women without medical credentials, with an executive committee of 16 bishops, including seven cardinals).

The commission produced a report in 1966, proposing that ("artificial") birth control was not intrinsically evil and that Catholic couples should be allowed to decide for themselves about, or if, they wished to employ (any) method of birth control. According to the majority report, the use of contraceptives should be regarded as an extension of the already accepted cycle method.

Then they changed their mind.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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18-10-2013, 10:55 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 10:48 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  No, it means that he knows and cares about us in everyway.

Will he give me a massage then? Neck's been giving me hell again (and I do apologise for using the word h*ll. How inconsiderate of me.).

Quote:Adulterous sex is wrong, because of the revelation of the 10 commandments.

Far as I can remember it went something like "You shall not covet your neighbor's wife." Doesn't say a single thing about me coveting my neighbour's husband though. Drinking Beverage

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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18-10-2013, 10:55 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 10:51 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  No, wasted seed does not refer to seed that does not fertilize an egg, but seed that is not able to at all conceive a child.

Again, that makes no sense to me. Because anytime an egg is not present, it is not able at all to conceive a child. So even if you are firing off in the right places inside your wife, if it is not during her fertile time, it is "seed that is not able at all [to] conceive a child."
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18-10-2013, 10:56 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 10:43 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Catholic doctrines are not eternal either.

For years the Catholic church told poor grieving parents that their child was in Limbo. Then, with a flick of the pen, it was no more.

There are countless other examples (slavery, etc.).

I believe in limbo, others do not, it is not a defined dogma.

Homosexuality is part of public revelation, the Church will never change on it.
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