Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
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18-10-2013, 11:07 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 10:58 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  
(18-10-2013 10:55 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Again, that makes no sense to me. Because anytime an egg is not present, it is not able at all to conceive a child. So even if you are firing off in the right places inside your wife, if it is not during her fertile time, it is "seed that is not able at all [to] conceive a child."

I think we are talking past each other because I have done a bad job explaining myself.

As long as a couple wills to conceive a child (either actively or passively) and the man puts his seed in the right place then he has not wasted his seed. I ask your pardon, God can conceive a child in an old barren women as long as they are not frustrating God and natures ability delibrately there is no sin.

we are talking past each other because you are forcing a square peg into a round hole (no pun intended here). You said a blanket set of rules - regarding sex and wasted seed - but in 70% of sexual encounters, that seed is wasted. If there is no egg, no baby can result, ergo seed is wasted.

And I think that once a woman is past menopause, conception, even through your concept of god, cannot occur.
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18-10-2013, 11:08 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 11:04 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  
(18-10-2013 11:01 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Bet they do. The church always changes in the face of overwhelming oppose. Like how they oppose slavery (now) and do not oppose mixed race marriages oh and let us not forget Heliocentrism. Yes the church has always found it prudent to alter their "eternal" beliefs when they become too unpopular.

The Church regulates marriage but considering that I know of mixed race marriages in the history of the Church, such a ban was not practiced at all times and all places.

Same thing with heliocentrism and slavery.

And in 100 years or so they will say the same thing about homosexuality. Evolution or extinction but either way the present model is a dinosaur. The only question is do you turn into oil or chickens?

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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18-10-2013, 11:08 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 11:04 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(18-10-2013 10:58 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  I think we are talking past each other because I have done a bad job explaining myself.

As long as a couple wills to conceive a child (either actively or passively) and the man puts his seed in the right place then he has not wasted his seed. I ask your pardon, God can conceive a child in an old barren women as long as they are not frustrating God and natures ability delibrately there is no sin.

Clearly you have no science background.
A couple who PURPOSELY practices NFP, is ACTIVELY, intentionally having sex ONLY when they think it is NOT possible.

I think you might like this homily on NFP use, many Catholics abuse it
http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/201202...f-NFP.html
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18-10-2013, 11:10 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 11:07 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(18-10-2013 10:58 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  I think we are talking past each other because I have done a bad job explaining myself.

As long as a couple wills to conceive a child (either actively or passively) and the man puts his seed in the right place then he has not wasted his seed. I ask your pardon, God can conceive a child in an old barren women as long as they are not frustrating God and natures ability delibrately there is no sin.

we are talking past each other because you are forcing a square peg into a round hole (no pun intended here). You said a blanket set of rules - regarding sex and wasted seed - but in 70% of sexual encounters, that seed is wasted. If there is no egg, no baby can result, ergo seed is wasted.

And I think that once a woman is past menopause, conception, even through your concept of god, cannot occur.
Well, I tried to do my best to explain that waste comes more from the will than from the act. Thank you for your patience.

Well St Anne the mother of St John the Baptist conceived as an old lady, so my faith tells me otherwise.
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18-10-2013, 11:10 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 10:59 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  
(18-10-2013 10:58 AM)nach_in Wrote:  So you have a right to condemn peoples private acts because you identify yourself as a member of a group, that thinks an anthology of bronze age mythology is real, and base your moral code on it?

seems legit

Faith of our Fathers and everything you know.

oh, so you have the right to condemn peoples private acts because your parents told you to belong to a group who believes in bronze age mythology?

even better, no agency on your side, so you can go judging people merrily all around without any kind of responsibility

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18-10-2013, 11:13 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 10:59 AM)guitar_nut Wrote:  
(18-10-2013 10:51 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  No, wasted seed does not refer to seed that does not fertilize an egg, but seed that is not able to at all conceive a child.

You are asking questions that I cannot answer, I only know what God has decided to reveal through revelation. He does not need us, yet he created us and desires us to Love him because he loves us. He is perfectly happy by himself but because of his goodness he wants others to have it as well, it is a mystery that Catholics are suppose to meditate on.

And in all my examples, I listed seed that is not able to conceive a child. You do see that, yes? Sex during any other time cannot conceive a child. Orgasm during sleep cannot conceive a child (and is completely out of our control). Sex post-menopause cannot conceive a child.

If you cannot answer these questions, then you cannot claim to understand your god's will; you can only blindly obey it. You are subjecting yourself to tyranny and calling it "love." This type of "love" causes observable harm. Imagine being born gay and then being told by a group of people, who can't even answer basic questions like mine, that you're sinful and against god's purpose (even though he created you). That's unacceptable and a great example of how religion makes good people do bad things.

When something doesn't make sense, the red flag should go up. If god can't withstand even basic scrutiny, why call him god?

You still haven't addressed how an all-powerful being has 'needs' and 'wants.'

He does not have needs or wants, He wills us good and desires that we be Good. I tried to do my best to explain that this generosity of God is a mystery that Catholics are encouraged to meditate on.
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18-10-2013, 11:13 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 11:02 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  
(18-10-2013 11:00 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Now if you said that any sex where the penis did not ejaculate into the vagina, that would at least make sense. But as far as I know, the Bible never specifically addresses this

Genesis 38 please read.

Sorry, but the word "Penis" and "Vagina" are just not listed there anywhere in there. Can you please point it out?

oh sure...its round about wasted seed, but again, we already addressed that wasted seed occurs a lot.

You also forget that this was also during a culture that believed that the baby was implanted into the woman through the penis....so the wasted seed part makes sense in that context. We know this to be untrue.
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18-10-2013, 11:13 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 11:02 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  Genesis 38 please read.

Saving you all a trip from having to look up this little gem:
Then Judah said to Onan, “Sleep with your brother’s wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to raise up offspring for your brother.” But Onan knew that the child would not be his; so whenever he slept with his brother’s wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from providing offspring for his brother. What he did was wicked in the Lord’s sight; so the Lord put him to death also.

What's interesting is that god had no issue with Judah impregnating his daughter-in-law just a few lines later... out of wedlock, of course. Confusing, these rules.

To the guys on the forum: you are all, of course, impregnating the your brother's widows in accordance with god's wishes, yes?

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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18-10-2013, 11:15 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 11:10 AM)nach_in Wrote:  
(18-10-2013 10:59 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  Faith of our Fathers and everything you know.

oh, so you have the right to condemn peoples private acts because your parents told you to belong to a group who believes in bronze age mythology?

even better, no agency on your side, so you can go judging people merrily all around without any kind of responsibility

God has revealed it, I believe the revelation, you don't, so you and I will be adversaries.

No, I have to be willing to give up my life for it, its part of our baptismal promises.
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18-10-2013, 11:16 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 11:10 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  Well St Anne the mother of St John the Baptist conceived as an old lady, so my faith tells me otherwise.

Uh huh. That is historical fact then? Must be if it came from the bible, eh?

well, if the laws of nature of suspended, then it can be easily said that Husbands should keep inseminating their husbands and hope for the best! The will for a child is there, right? Thats all that counts you siad.
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