Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
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18-10-2013, 11:30 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 11:28 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  
(18-10-2013 11:27 AM)nach_in Wrote:  I'll never hear a homily again in my life

Im sorry that you cant hear Sad

Oh, my hearing is just fine, thank you... I just developed a bullshit intolerance over the 19 years I was exposed to it

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18-10-2013, 11:31 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 11:24 AM)nach_in Wrote:  
(18-10-2013 11:15 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  God has revealed it, I believe the revelation, you don't, so you and I will be adversaries.

No, I have to be willing to give up my life for it, its part of our baptismal promises.

we're not adversaries because we believe different things, we are because you want to force your beliefs onto me Drinking Beverage

Force? Or course not. I am sharing them that is why I came here. If you mean I will vote to pass laws against homosexuality then yes I will, but it is because I believe those things offend God and hurt people.

Once again I believe these things because of revelation, I truly believe Christ was raised from the dead and the subsequent Apostles, Martyrs and Confessors that have kept and spread the Faith till this very age.
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18-10-2013, 11:32 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 11:27 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  
(18-10-2013 11:24 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The Catholic cult didn't invent the "Sacrament of Matrimony" until the Council of Trent.
Oops. 1500 years of immoral/wasted seed. Tongue

That is why it is said explicitly in the Bible in Ephesians 5?

Then why did it take 1500 years to figure out that marriage was a "sacrament" ?
Oh that's right, the Church of Scripture and Tradition, gets to change it's "traditions", and invent new ones, depending on the way the wind is blowing. Yeah. I get it.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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18-10-2013, 11:34 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 11:32 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(18-10-2013 11:27 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  That is why it is said explicitly in the Bible in Ephesians 5?

Then why did it take 1500 years to figure out that marriage was a "sacrament" ?
Oh that's right, the Church of Scripture and Tradition, gets to change it's "traditions", and invent new ones, depending on the way the wind is blowing. Yeah. I get it.

Its called a sacrament in Ephesians 5, we didn't have to spell it out for people until the protestants started saying it was not a sacrament.
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18-10-2013, 11:38 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
Thank you for taking the time for having this discussion.
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18-10-2013, 11:39 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 11:34 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  
(18-10-2013 11:32 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Then why did it take 1500 years to figure out that marriage was a "sacrament" ?
Oh that's right, the Church of Scripture and Tradition, gets to change it's "traditions", and invent new ones, depending on the way the wind is blowing. Yeah. I get it.

Its called a sacrament in Ephesians 5, we didn't have to spell it out for people until the protestants started saying it was not a sacrament.

The word "sacrament" does not appear in Ephesians 5.
You also have given us no reason to accept your cult's holy books as authoritative.

Your wish to impose your beliefs on others, is no different that Muslim radicals who think they get to do the same thing. No different at all. You are seriously dangerous to a civilized society. You also have no understanding of a constitutional democracy, or the foundations it rests upon.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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18-10-2013, 11:46 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(17-10-2013 11:16 PM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  "Why do we feel it is a moral right to legislate against homosexuality?"

We believe that we have the right to legislate against homosexuality because such acts are sinful. All sins offend God and injure man.

However, Catholics do not believe that every sin should be a law in government.

"Human law is framed for a number of human beings, the majority of whom are not perfect in virtue. Wherefore human laws do not forbid vices from which the virtuous abstain, but only the more grievous vices, from which it is possible for the majority to abstain, and chiefly those which are to the hurt of others, without the prohibition of which a human society could not be maintained: thus human law prohibits murder,
theft, and suchlike.” (S.T. I-II, p.96, a. 2)" St Thomas Aquinas

Homosexual acts are something which the majority can abstain from and thus it is helpful to forbid them for the pleasure of God and the sake of public virtue.

What you've quoted here seems contrary to the point you're trying to make. The examples given for things that are sinful and affect others negatively can be agreed on by most, but homosexuality does not have any direct negative impact on anyone but the two people entering into the act. The only argument against homosexuality is that it is contrary to church belief. Shouldn't it then be deemed a religious restriction, rather than a legal one? People who do not believe in or adhere to the teachings of a specific religion are in no way bound to that church's rules, and shouldn't be, under any circumstances.

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who has said it- not even if I have said it- unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. - Buddha
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18-10-2013, 11:46 AM
Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 11:34 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  
(18-10-2013 11:32 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Then why did it take 1500 years to figure out that marriage was a "sacrament" ?
Oh that's right, the Church of Scripture and Tradition, gets to change it's "traditions", and invent new ones, depending on the way the wind is blowing. Yeah. I get it.

Its called a sacrament in Ephesians 5, we didn't have to spell it out for people until the protestants started saying it was not a sacrament.

The concept of marriages exists outside of The Catholic Church, why should The Catholic Church get to decide what defines marriage for everyone?

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"I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor will I ever ask another man to live for mine."
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18-10-2013, 11:48 AM (This post was last modified: 18-10-2013 12:22 PM by Vera.)
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 11:31 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  I believe those things offend God and hurt people.

And I believe, no, I know, that what you believe offends and hurts people. And you know what? I don't give a fuck about the feelings of fictional figures (and badly written ones at that) and imaginary friends. But I care more than you could ever know or understand about human beings. Those same human beings that your despicable mythology has been trying to strip of any dignity for more than 2000 years; those same human beings that for more than 2000 years have been told by your set of fairy-tales how they are inherently sinful and unworthy (even though they were created by a supposedly perfect being in his perfect image, but let's not dwell on that incongruence... like it's the only one anyway); those same human beings who a supposedly loving creator is more than happy to sentence to eternal, ETERNAL, torture simply because they were born in a non-xian country, for example and thus, were never ""revealed"" (not enough quotation marks for this!!!) anything. Or because they loved someone of the same gender.

You know what? Moments like this I kinda wish your petty, vindictive god existed, just so he could actually be offended. But of course, a vile creature like that would only be capable of hate and destruction.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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18-10-2013, 11:48 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 11:22 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  Because He chooses to with his will, but He does not need too in his essence.

God chooses to have desires he does not need to have? Seems legit...

It is explanations like the one above that led me away from theism. It's pretty rare that someone says 'I don't know the answer... that's a good question." It's obvious to me that any answer will do as long as it preserves the worldview of the believer. I could (and have) ask a dozen theists the same question, and I'd receive a dozen different answers. There are a few possible conclusions I draw from this:

1. You're all wrong and are making up answers that suit you, or parroting what you were told in church;
2. One of you is right, and the rest of you are wrong;

I lean heavily towards #1.

Thanks for the chat. Smile

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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