Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
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26-02-2015, 04:10 PM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(26-02-2015 04:04 PM)pablo Wrote:  
(26-02-2015 03:08 PM)PetrovPolak Wrote:  The Vatican's authority is based on God. Even if you don't accept the validity of Christianity, you have to admit they at least 'claim' to have a basis of authority. The U.N. and their subsequent Universal Bill of Human Rights has literally no basis of authority other than "We say so.", it doesn't even claim to have any.

When you say things like that I have no idea if you actually mean it, or if you're just a troll.

Alright then, how about you give me any sort of proof that 'natural human rights' exist within a secular context?
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26-02-2015, 04:12 PM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(26-02-2015 03:39 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(26-02-2015 12:07 PM)PetrovPolak Wrote:  No it's still valid. Sorry.

Not because you say it is without a shred of evidence of logic.
Sorry yourself.
Fail.

Vatican II was a validly called Council attended by bishops appointed mostly by PRE-Vatican II popes. To intimate is was not somehow valid is rediculous.
You really are no Catholic are you ?

Quote:Not because you say it is without a shred of evidence of logic.
Sorry yourself.
Fail.

You're the one saying it's been disproven somehow. Well, show me.

Quote:Vatican II was a validly called Council attended by bishops appointed mostly by PRE-Vatican II popes. To intimate is was not somehow valid is rediculous.
You really are no Catholic are you ?

1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnEQIq4_AKI

2) Even if it was, like I said, the new pronunciations were non-dogmatic, and thus, can be repealed. Also, "Pre-Vatican 2 popes"? What's the significance of saying that? "Post-Vatican 2 popes" obviously couldn't exist before the Council was called.
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26-02-2015, 04:21 PM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(26-02-2015 03:08 PM)PetrovPolak Wrote:  
(26-02-2015 02:56 PM)Airportkid Wrote:  Boy you got that right. That's certainly why I don't pay the Vatican and its Pope any heed.

You weren't referring to them? Well, that statement fits them perfectly. Funny how disparaging statements made about others apply so precisely to the disparager.

The Vatican's authority is based on God. Even if you don't accept the validity of Christianity, you have to admit they at least 'claim' to have a basis of authority. The U.N. and their subsequent Universal Bill of Human Rights has literally no basis of authority other than "We say so.", it doesn't even claim to have any.

Couple of questions:
1.) How can there be this authority of god when the church has changed, ignored, and implemented their own versions of god's law based on secular motives?

2.) Not sure if you said this, but catholics refer to their religion as the "one true religion" quite often. On what basis is this claim made? It is either that members are so proud of the organization (and we all know what the god in the bible thinks of pride:gaspSmile, or it is just the "I like my god better than your god" deal.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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26-02-2015, 04:45 PM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(26-02-2015 01:19 AM)PetrovPolak Wrote:  The Catholic faith is the true faith, it doesn't matter how corrupt the officials within the Church get at a specific point in time, the Church itself will never fall, and the Catholic faith will still be the objective truth.

My my, are all Catholics as arrogant as you? Why do you think you are qualified to determine objective truth? Are you really claiming to know the mind of God? 'Cause I'm pretty sure that's a sin and shit according to your religion.

#sigh
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26-02-2015, 04:46 PM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(25-02-2015 09:57 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  
(25-02-2015 09:47 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Would you be for or against a catholic theocracy?

I would be! Smile

What the fuck Tarzan? I took you for delusional not fucking stupid. No good could come of that.

#sigh
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26-02-2015, 04:49 PM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(26-02-2015 04:09 PM)PetrovPolak Wrote:  Oh, looks like I misread it. Never mind though, as the article turned out to be mostly crap anyways: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world...n/5227903/

Oh shocker, the Vatican denied it. Do you really consider the Vatican to be an unbiased and credible source on the subject when it's the one being accused?

You still haven't provided one instance of the church turning over a pedophile clergy member to the police. Drinking Beverage

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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26-02-2015, 04:51 PM (This post was last modified: 26-02-2015 08:20 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(26-02-2015 04:12 PM)PetrovPolak Wrote:  You're the one saying it's been disproven somehow. Well, show me.

No one has to show anything. YOU are making a claim for which there is not a shred of evidence. Your statement has all the validity of "The moon is made of green cheese, prove to me it isn't". Facepalm Not ONE philosopher or scientist claims in 2015 that the substance of something is different from the thing. IF they do, you can try to make an argument. You can't, and you won't.
The popes that called and presided over Vatican II were duly elected BEFORE it, by cardinals appointed BEFORE it. You seem to think a Catholic has the right to do Cafeteria Council shopping. The pronouncements of a duly called council to a Catholic are not "dogma" anyway. But a Catholic cannot dismiss a council she doesn't like. You really are no Catholic are you.

The Vatican *claiming* it has some sort of authority does not GIVE it authority. Are you are recent convert or something ? You are pretty bad at debating this crap.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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26-02-2015, 05:00 PM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(26-02-2015 04:49 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(26-02-2015 04:09 PM)PetrovPolak Wrote:  Oh, looks like I misread it. Never mind though, as the article turned out to be mostly crap anyways: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world...n/5227903/

Oh shocker, the Vatican denied it. Do you really consider the Vatican to be an unbiased and credible source on the subject when it's the one being accused?

You still haven't provided one instance of the church turning over a pedophile clergy member to the police. Drinking Beverage

Quote:Oh shocker, the Vatican denied it. Do you really consider the Vatican to be an unbiased and credible source on the subject when it's the one being accused?

The same bishop that the article said made the claims, denied the claims they said he made. How is he not credible if he's the one the article said made the damn claims in the first place?

Quote:You still haven't provided one instance of the church turning over a pedophile clergy member to the police. Drinking Beverage

I'm sure they've done it before, heck I know someone who's home diocese just did it a couple years ago, there's not a lot of news stories about them doing it probably because there's not a lot of pedophile priests to begin with. Besides, that wouldn't make good news.
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26-02-2015, 05:06 PM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(26-02-2015 04:51 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(26-02-2015 04:12 PM)PetrovPolak Wrote:  You're the one saying it's been disproven somehow. Well, show me.

No one has to show anything. YOU are making a claim for which there is not a shred of evidence. Your statement has all the validity of "The moon is made of green cheese, prove to me it isn't". Facepalm Not sONE Philosopher of scientist claims in 2015 that the substance of something is different from the thing. IF they do, you can try to make an argument. You can't, and you won't.
The popes that called and presided over Vatican II were duly elected BEFORE it, by cardinals appointed BEFORE it. You seem to think a Catholic has the right to do Cafeteria Council shopping. The pronouncements of a duly called council to a Catholic are not "dogma" anyway. But a Catholic cannot dismiss a council she doesn't like. You really are no Catholic are you.

The Vatican *claiming* it has some sort of authority does not GIVE it authority. Are you are recent convert or something ? You are pretty bad at debating this crap.

Quote:No one has to show anything. YOU are making a claim for which there is not a shred of evidence.

No, actually, 'you' were the one that claimed it was disproven, therefore 'you' have to disprove it.

Quote:Not sONE Philosopher of scientist claims in 2015 that the substance of something is different from the thing.

1) I'm sure that's not true.
2) Even if it is true, you're using an appeal to majority fallacy.

Quote:The popes that called and presided over Vatican II were duly elected BEFORE it, by cardinals appointed BEFORE it.

Yeah, no shit. Once again, what's your point?

Quote:You seem to think a Catholic has the right to do Cafeteria Council shopping.

No, I reject it because it was passed in an illegal way, and it contradicts previous Church teaching. Even if it's not dogmatic, those two things are still a huge problem. Did you even watch even part of the video?

Quote:The pronouncements of a duly called council to a Catholic are not "dogma" anyway.

If it's a dogmatic council, which most of them were, then yes it is, you idiot. You really don't know anything about the Church.

Quote:But a Catholic cannot dismiss a council she doesn't like. You really are no Catholic are you.

Which is why we have legitimate reasons to reject it instead of just saying "We don't like it."
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26-02-2015, 05:07 PM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(26-02-2015 04:45 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(26-02-2015 01:19 AM)PetrovPolak Wrote:  The Catholic faith is the true faith, it doesn't matter how corrupt the officials within the Church get at a specific point in time, the Church itself will never fall, and the Catholic faith will still be the objective truth.

My my, are all Catholics as arrogant as you? Why do you think you are qualified to determine objective truth? Are you really claiming to know the mind of God? 'Cause I'm pretty sure that's a sin and shit according to your religion.

"Who are you to tell me the moon isn't made out of cheese? You're just an arrogant asshole!"

Quote:Are you really claiming to know the mind of God? 'Cause I'm pretty sure that's a sin and shit according to your religion.

Actually, no, that's really what you're supposed to do.
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