Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
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18-10-2013, 10:05 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 09:49 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  We believe that Homosexual acts offend God because of revelation from God that such acts offend him. In fact we believe that all sexual acts which would involve the wasting of seed are wrong to him, these accounts are in the book of Genesis.

How can an omniscient, all-powerful being be 'offended' by something as trivial as a sex act by two small organisms, on the only life-bearing planet in a single solar system? That's about the same as you being offended by one of your cells deviating from what is considered standard cell mitosis. The biblical god sure is petty.

Wasted seed? How many sperm don't make it to the egg during an attempt to achieve pregnancy? Go look it up. It's quite a bit of 'wasted' seed. Those are functions designed (according to you) by your 'don't waste seed' god. If seed is so precious, why not have a single sperm that makes it to the egg? Why must it be thousands, all but one of which will perish?

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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18-10-2013, 10:10 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 09:49 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  Secondarily, there is logic (using things for their intended use) and evidence (the bodily, psychological and spiritual turmoil that all forms of sex out of place cause), but these are held in a far secondary position to us.

You are making unfounded generalizations. Who says there is pychological turmoil from sex out of place? I assume you are referring to sodomy, which I've stated for the umpteenth time, is not a purely homosexual activity.

I find no turmoil - psychological, physically or otherwise - when I give my husband a blowjob. Or when he performs cunnilingus on me.

No wonder you are miserable. You don't enjoy all possible aspects of your sex life because your religion has perverted even the most natural acts.

Can someone please quote me the part in the bible where God specifically states that all sodomy, even between married heterosexual couples, is sinful?
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18-10-2013, 10:10 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 09:49 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  
(18-10-2013 12:03 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  Why exactly would it offend god if a homosexual act is commited?

We believe that Homosexual acts offend God because of revelation from God that such acts offend him. In fact we believe that all sexual acts which would involve the wasting of seed are wrong to him, these accounts are in the book of Genesis.

Secondarily, there is logic (using things for their intended use) and evidence (the bodily, psychological and spiritual turmoil that all forms of sex out of place cause), but these are held in a far secondary position to us.

Sex in primates, has many uses.

The ancient Hebrews believed that the entire "person" was contained in the male's contribution to the fertilization process. The female was only the receptacle, and medium for growth. Human knowledge has FAR advanced from desert dwellers. There is no reason their ancient norms should apply to modern humans.

What Catholics "believe" is irrelevant in a secular society. They have no right to impose their beliefs on others. There is no "compelling state interest" to make laws concerning a matter that has no negative consequences, for anyone.

Among the questions they never answer is "Why is something offensive to their deity ? " It implies there is a standard to which their deity refers. Where did THAT come from ?

The only reason the Babble has any rule, or law, is that the custom was ALREADY in the culture. There is no law that is unique to human religions. Religion sanctions culture. Culture does not sanction religion.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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18-10-2013, 10:11 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 09:57 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(18-10-2013 09:49 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  We believe that Homosexual acts offend God because of revelation from God that such acts offend him. In fact we believe that all sexual acts which would involve the wasting of seed are wrong to him, these accounts are in the book of Genesis.
Hitler was offended by Jews and tried to get rid of them all. We know he was offended because he said so and proved it with his actions. This, of course, has NOTHING to do with whether his position was a moral one and we all know full well that it wasn't. You're going to have to do better with explaining why homosexuality is objectively offensive.

(18-10-2013 09:49 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  Secondarily, there is logic (using things for their intended use) and evidence (the bodily, psychological and spiritual turmoil that all forms of sex out of place cause), but these are held in a far secondary position to us.
What logic? What evidence?

This thread asked me why Catholics believe we should legislate homosexuality, I answered that question. I am sorry that you do not find my answer satisfactory.

The logic is simple a man has sexual faculties so the human race can propagate. Children come from the union of a man and a women and are made up of the two DNA creating a great bond from common features, this unit of a man woman and child create a union of body and soul because of the shared characteristics.
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18-10-2013, 10:15 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 10:10 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(18-10-2013 09:49 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  Secondarily, there is logic (using things for their intended use) and evidence (the bodily, psychological and spiritual turmoil that all forms of sex out of place cause), but these are held in a far secondary position to us.

You are making unfounded generalizations. Who says there is pychological turmoil from sex out of place? I assume you are referring to sodomy, which I've stated for the umpteenth time, is not a purely homosexual activity.

I find no turmoil - psychological, physically or otherwise - when I give my husband a blowjob. Or when he performs cunnilingus on me.

No wonder you are miserable. You don't enjoy all possible aspects of your sex life because your religion has perverted even the most natural acts.

Can someone please quote me the part in the bible where God specifically states that all sodomy, even between married heterosexual couples, is sinful?

No I am referring to all sex out of place, adultery, masturbation etc

The Psychological problems I am referring to are those mentioned in articles like this, I said these are secondary to revelation
http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/...the-brain/

Sexual acts between two married people are only sinful if they lead to the spilling of seed, you will find that in Genesis 38.

I am a very happily married man with 4 children.
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18-10-2013, 10:18 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 10:10 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(18-10-2013 09:49 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  We believe that Homosexual acts offend God because of revelation from God that such acts offend him. In fact we believe that all sexual acts which would involve the wasting of seed are wrong to him, these accounts are in the book of Genesis.

Secondarily, there is logic (using things for their intended use) and evidence (the bodily, psychological and spiritual turmoil that all forms of sex out of place cause), but these are held in a far secondary position to us.

Sex in primates, has many uses.

The ancient Hebrews believed that the entire "person" was contained in the male's contribution to the fertilization process. The female was only the receptacle, and medium for growth. Human knowledge has FAR advanced from desert dwellers. There is no reason their ancient norms should apply to modern humans.

What Catholics "believe" is irrelevant in a secular society. They have no right to impose their beliefs on others. There is no "compelling state interest" to make laws concerning a matter that has no negative consequences, for anyone.

Among the questions they never answer is "Why is something offensive to their deity ? " It implies there is a standard to which their deity refers. Where did THAT come from ?

The only reason the Babble has any rule, or law, is that the custom was ALREADY in the culture. There is no law that is unique to human religions. Religion sanctions culture. Culture does not sanction religion.

No one ever built a house by having sex, sex has but one use with two ends procreation and comfort.

We also have power because we still live in a democracy and for the time being we are a large portion of society.
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18-10-2013, 10:20 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 10:11 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  The logic is simple a man has sexual faculties so the human race can propagate. Children come from the union of a man and a women and are made up of the two DNA creating a great bond from common features, this unit of a man woman and child create a union of body and soul because of the shared characteristics.

Uh huh....so if god gets to take credit for the world, he also has to take credit for our biology. Which, as I've told millions of catholics, that would make *god* the most prolific abortionist of all time. Please educate yourself on chemical pregnancies and the natural rate of miscarriage. 50% of all attached embryos detach after only a few days. 50 god damn percent! If they do manage to stay attached, 25% of those pregnancies will end in miscarriage.

Your god is such an awesome designer...but I digress...
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18-10-2013, 10:21 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 10:05 AM)guitar_nut Wrote:  
(18-10-2013 09:49 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  We believe that Homosexual acts offend God because of revelation from God that such acts offend him. In fact we believe that all sexual acts which would involve the wasting of seed are wrong to him, these accounts are in the book of Genesis.

How can an omniscient, all-powerful being be 'offended' by something as trivial as a sex act by two small organisms, on the only life-bearing planet in a single solar system? That's about the same as you being offended by one of your cells deviating from what is considered standard cell mitosis. The biblical god sure is petty.

Wasted seed? How many sperm don't make it to the egg during an attempt to achieve pregnancy? Go look it up. It's quite a bit of 'wasted' seed. Those are functions designed (according to you) by your 'don't waste seed' god. If seed is so precious, why not have a single sperm that makes it to the egg? Why must it be thousands, all but one of which will perish?

Wasted seed refers to seed that is not put in the right place, it is true only one sperm will fertilize the egg, but it will have no chance of fertilizing any egg if it is not in the proper enviroment.

Because he said so, because he loves even the hair on our body and he watches over us each day and night. He wants us to love him, and so when we seek pleasure by itself it distracts us from the love of God. God who created us shared with us his creative power and so he wishes us to use it to create other humans also made in his image which he can love.
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18-10-2013, 10:23 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 10:20 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(18-10-2013 10:11 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  The logic is simple a man has sexual faculties so the human race can propagate. Children come from the union of a man and a women and are made up of the two DNA creating a great bond from common features, this unit of a man woman and child create a union of body and soul because of the shared characteristics.

Uh huh....so if god gets to take credit for the world, he also has to take credit for our biology. Which, as I've told millions of catholics, that would make *god* the most prolific abortionist of all time. Please educate yourself on chemical pregnancies and the natural rate of miscarriage. 50% of all attached embryos detach after only a few days. 50 god damn percent! If they do manage to stay attached, 25% of those pregnancies will end in miscarriage.

Your god is such an awesome designer...but I digress...

Death did not come into the world until the fall of Adam, death was the punishment for sin. Death also brings our souls back to God the greatest source of happiness.

I believe that from revelation.
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18-10-2013, 10:25 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(18-10-2013 10:15 AM)nmoerbeek Wrote:  
(18-10-2013 10:10 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  You are making unfounded generalizations. Who says there is pychological turmoil from sex out of place? I assume you are referring to sodomy, which I've stated for the umpteenth time, is not a purely homosexual activity.

I find no turmoil - psychological, physically or otherwise - when I give my husband a blowjob. Or when he performs cunnilingus on me.

No wonder you are miserable. You don't enjoy all possible aspects of your sex life because your religion has perverted even the most natural acts.

Can someone please quote me the part in the bible where God specifically states that all sodomy, even between married heterosexual couples, is sinful?

No I am referring to all sex out of place, adultery, masturbation etc

The Psychological problems I am referring to are those mentioned in articles like this, I said these are secondary to revelation
http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/...the-brain/

Sexual acts between two married people are only sinful if they lead to the spilling of seed, you will find that in Genesis 38.

I am a very happily married man with 4 children.


So nocternal emissions, which are completely out of your control, are condemning you to hell based on your biblical teachings.

And how about sex with a pregnant woman where further procreation can not result? Did you really stop having sex with your wife for more than 3 years while she was bearing those 4 children?

Further, since pregnancy can only happen in a short window of 72 hours (12 hours after the egg is released from the Ovary), all of those sperm were clearly not seeking an egg....did you only have sex with your wife during her 3 fertile days of each cycle? Of course not. So why is the spilling of seed in this way ok, but not for others. Makes no sense.
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