Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
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14-03-2015, 08:20 PM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(13-03-2015 11:32 PM)PetrovPolak Wrote:  
(13-03-2015 03:31 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  False comparison. For geology, we have actual physical evidence that can be examined. For history, we mostly just have documents, which are basically hearsay. Some historians are more trustworthy than others, and when you have more than one account, you can compare them. But you're ultimately taking someone's word for it. That's much less certain than in a science like geology where we have hard physical evidence.

Yeah, because everyone knows physical evidence can't be corrupted, or even faked, right?

Fakes and hoaxes (and even honest mistakes) in the world of science are usually quickly exposed and corrected by other scientists -- because the physical evidence is there and can be examined by anyone. We cannot go back in time and observe what actually happened at Galileo's trial. All we can do is read stories about it and decide whether or not we want to trust those stories. They cannot be examined and verified in the same way that physical evidence can be. It's not the same thing at all.
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14-03-2015, 08:35 PM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(14-03-2015 07:52 PM)PetrovPolak Wrote:  Nah, ya fucking dip, the usage actually comes from how people 'did' use the word back then, in fact they still use it in the same way in reference to the Middle Ages. Case and point:

"Wherefore if forgers of money and other evil-doers are forthwith condemned to death by the secular authority....."

-Thomas Aquinas; Summa Theologica

Even though there was no separation of Church and State back then as we know today, there was still a distinction between authorities of the State and authorities of the Church, though, I'm sure you'll find a way to whine about this explanation as while.

Which further demonstrates that your head is stuck in the dark ages.

Insults aside, it's been interesting to read your responses to concepts like freedom and how you feel that the church provides it moreso vs secular culture and ideals.

If you don't mind, I'd be interested in you unpacking that a bit. I'm sure you have lots to say, and well......this is a place designed for saying things.

How do you define freedom? What importance does freedom play in your worldview and how does your "Truth" provide that freedom in a way that is better than any other's version of it?

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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14-03-2015, 09:13 PM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
Quote:Which further demonstrates that your head is stuck in the dark ages.

You criticized me for saying that the term "secular" existed in the Middle Ages, and I provided evidence to justify that claim. I don't know what you want from me.

Quote:If you don't mind, I'd be interested in you unpacking that a bit. I'm sure you have lots to say, and well......this is a place designed for saying things.

How do you define freedom? What importance does freedom play in your worldview and how does your "Truth" provide that freedom in a way that is better than any other's version of it?

I don't define 'freedom' as anything, as I don't think 'freedom', in and idealistic sense, exists as anything more than a piece of empty rhetoric that's meaning changes with the person/organization using the term.

Americans define freedom as being free from the influence of religion, free market, ect. Muslims define freedom as being free from the act or influence of sin. Communists define freedom as being free from the (supposedly) artificial constructs of inequality and hierarchy. None of them are wrong, as freedom as they all describe it is all being free of something, albeit different things for each ideology.
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14-03-2015, 09:15 PM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(14-03-2015 08:20 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(13-03-2015 11:32 PM)PetrovPolak Wrote:  Yeah, because everyone knows physical evidence can't be corrupted, or even faked, right?

Fakes and hoaxes (and even honest mistakes) in the world of science are usually quickly exposed and corrected by other scientists -- because the physical evidence is there and can be examined by anyone. We cannot go back in time and observe what actually happened at Galileo's trial. All we can do is read stories about it and decide whether or not we want to trust those stories. They cannot be examined and verified in the same way that physical evidence can be. It's not the same thing at all.

Yes, but the facts are that they 'do' exist, not to mention that scientific research can be wrong, or the research subject could have been corrupted somehow before the research even started.

Just because it's not empirical evidence, doesn't mean we can't determine it objectively.
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14-03-2015, 09:30 PM (This post was last modified: 14-03-2015 09:53 PM by evenheathen.)
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(14-03-2015 09:13 PM)PetrovPolak Wrote:  I don't define 'freedom' as anything, as I don't think 'freedom', in and idealistic sense, exists as anything more than a piece of empty rhetoric that's meaning changes with the person/organization using the term.

Americans define freedom as being free from the influence of religion, free market, ect. Muslims define freedom as being free from the act or influence of sin. Communists define freedom as being free from the (supposedly) artificial constructs of inequality and hierarchy. None of them are wrong, as freedom as they all describe it is all being free of something, albeit different things for each ideology.

Mark it, dude.

I'ma give you points for that response. There's a lot of insight there that I can agree with, however that insight leads me to a different set of conclusions about reality than it does for you, obviously. That's what I'm digging at.

Or do we both reach the same conclusion from the opposite end? Is my nihilism the same as your ultimate obligation? Are we that weighed down by mankind's instinct to shit on each other? Is there not any room for us to choose who we are or how we should exist?

What is the reason......what is the gain for God in creating our reality/existence?

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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15-03-2015, 12:34 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(14-03-2015 02:12 PM)PetrovPolak Wrote:  I'm not actually against torture in certain situations.

... And what situations would those be?

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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15-03-2015, 12:37 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(15-03-2015 12:34 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(14-03-2015 02:12 PM)PetrovPolak Wrote:  I'm not actually against torture in certain situations.

... And what situations would those be?

When he's not on the receiving end, and the voices in his head tell him it's okay. Dodgy

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15-03-2015, 07:21 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(14-03-2015 02:06 PM)PetrovPolak Wrote:  
(14-03-2015 02:31 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Sources? Preferably from people other than those responsible for this execution?

His own writings.

For example?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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15-03-2015, 07:22 AM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(14-03-2015 02:13 PM)PetrovPolak Wrote:  
(14-03-2015 06:37 AM)Chas Wrote:  Which is what is being objected to - the telling, not the content.

Which is exactly my point. You're problem isn't with whether the content is right or not, your problem is just with them telling you what to do.

Precisely. It's called Human Rights.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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15-03-2015, 12:55 PM
RE: Catholics vs. TTA......Respectfully.....
(15-03-2015 07:22 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-03-2015 02:13 PM)PetrovPolak Wrote:  Which is exactly my point. You're problem isn't with whether the content is right or not, your problem is just with them telling you what to do.

Precisely. It's called Human Rights.

The Pope is the Human and he's got the Rights - to tell the rest of us what to do Dodgy Poor ol' Petrov can't understand why we're not rushing to sign up as minions.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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